What was the last movie you've seen?

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AppleQueso

Re: What was the last movie you've seen?

Post by AppleQueso »

dude

TDK and Begins are filled to the brim with plotholes and silly, tiny moments too. Most of those you mention aren't even plotholes, they're just "WASN'T IT DUMB WHEN..." stuff.

One of those I think you just got plain wrong, though.
Luke wrote: Okay, time to defend my position:
Kind of weird no one has found the "bat" on top of the roof of a building for eight years.
It was on the roof for a couple of months. It spent 8 years in Lucius's hangar.
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Luke
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Re: What was the last movie you've seen?

Post by Luke »

dsheinem wrote:
I disagree with almost all your points, Luke, and thought it was leaps and bounds better than The Avengers as well. TDK was better, but this was excellent and easily on par with Begins.

Fair is fair.

I just can't believe people would put up with all the plot holes and say "this was a great movie". Maybe because I watched THE ARTIST afterwards and it reminded me of what a great movie is.

Seriously, very, very little Batman in a Batman movie. Is that too much to ask? The crux is that Nolan has tried to make a "real" Batman in the other films, and it seems real. Rises is dull and doesn't suspend disbelief with all the plot holes and clumsy writing.

It's by far the worst of the trilogy by a mile in my eyes. Completely unbelievable.

That said, I'd still say "go see it" and I enjoyed it. But it is more like Bale playing Bond than anything else. Characters aside, this has nothing to do with Batman.
AppleQueso

Re: What was the last movie you've seen?

Post by AppleQueso »

Luke wrote: Seriously, very, very little Batman in a Batman movie. Is that too much to ask? The crux is that Nolan has tried to make a "real" Batman in the other films, and it seems real. Rises is dull and doesn't suspend disbelief with all the plot holes and clumsy writing.

It's by far the worst of the trilogy by a mile in my eyes. Completely unbelievable.
Pretty sure the bat-suit is on screen at least as much as it was in Begins. I kinda feel like I'm hearing the BB complaints all over again. Right down to the "it's dull and overlong" stuff.

My disbelief felt pretty damn suspended. I was totally invested in what was going on with the characters. I don't know, it doesn't seem to me like you were really into this series all that much to begin with.

Comparing a movie like The Artist to a friggin' superhero action flick though... why would even you do that? It doesn't even make sense. That's like comparing a novel to a cookbook.
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Michi
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Re: What was the last movie you've seen?

Post by Michi »

I'm going to post this quick and then flee from this thread before I accidentally read any Dark Knight Rises spoilers.



Fright
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TCM continues to replay movies they’ve already shown on Friday night, while mixing in some new ones as well. Two weeks ago they re-aired Possession, which I was happy to watch since the DVD is so expensive. I thought I was starting to sense a bit of a pattern here, as it seemed to be been going *repeat* *repeat* *something new*. But last week they broke the pattern and showed Fright, so I didn’t have to dig through my own collection to find something to watch. Color me happy.

Fright introduces us to Amanda (Susan George), a young woman hired one night to baby-sit the son of Pussy Galore.

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Welcome, Bon-, I mean, Amanda.

The couple of the home, Helen and her husband, are going out for the evening, something you’d think they’d be at least a little excited about. But Helen seems positively paranoid. She walks around checking door locks and looks like she expects someone to jump out at her at any moment and yell, BOO! The hubby is much calmer by comparison, walking around making light hearted jokes and small talk with Amanda, while Helen walks around all antsy, trying to decided whether she really wants to leave or not.

Before they leave they offer Amanda some Sherry because, as every good parent knows, it’s always a good idea to get the people you hire to watch your children for the night good and liquored up before you leave.

To top it off, the couple has a cryptic conversation in the car about whether or not they think Amanda knows….we’re not told yet. That’s why it’s cryptic.

Amanda meanwhile is walking around the house scaring the crap out of herself.

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Gah!...Oh, it’s just my reflection.

Every little noise the house makes seems to make her just as jerky as Helen. First it’s the creaky noises the old house makes and the dripping faucet. Then she doesn’t pay attention to where she’s going and bout scares herself to death when she runs into the closes hanger outside. The poor girl’s got issues. You know what, stay inside and keep all the doors locked until the parents get home and you’ll be fine. Walk around with a fire poker if it’ll make you feel better, but for the love of god, don’t open any doors.

She’s about to make a break for it when she thinks she sees a face looking at her through the window, but then the doorbell rings and it’s her friend Chris….her very horny friend Chris.

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You are a walking, scruffy, hormone filled cliché.

Chris is there with only two things on his mind. Well, okay, only one thing on his mind, but while he’s there he decides to add douchy-ness to the list and tells an already freaked out Amanda about how Helen’s paranoid and obsessive ex-husband Brian went bonkers and tried to kill her, their child and himself before getting caught and sent away to the loony bin.

By now you can see where this is going. Brian does inevitably show up, having successfully broken out of the sanitarium and wreaks havoc on everybody in and associated with the house for the rest of the film. There’s a good reason the man was locked up. The guy is not playing with a full deck.

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At all.

Fright was made in 1971 and, at least to me, is an obvious influence on several other well-known horror/thriller films. One could easily describe it as an early pseudo-slasher, without the gore. You’ve got the lone female babysitter, a creepy old house where the psycho manages to make it inside, a doctor who’s working with the cops to try to help stop the madness his patient is causing, incompetent police... I could go on, but you get the idea. In ’71 I’m sure a lot of these ideas were new and fresh, but their predecessors also later implemented them much better than Fright does.

The movie also has a couple of really nagging flaws that I find it hard to get past. For one, Amanda has not one, but several good chances to escape (her and the baby), but for some inexplicable reason she keeps mucking them up: She gets away, but stops too soon, giving Brian plenty of time to catch up and grab her. While Brian’s distracted she manages to run to another part of the house, but doesn’t bother locking any doors. After a while I sort of wanted to smack her on principal. The girl’s supposed to be a psychology student. Use your damn head.

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I’m sorry! I should have told you I failed my ‘Common Sense’ course!

Another thing is that when the police finally do show up, they only have one gun. Now, I know that England has different gun laws than here in the States, but I’m pretty sure that the police there are allowed to have weapons in those cases where those sticks just won’t do. The film was set in what was described as a small town, so I’m not sure what I was expecting when I heard “one gun”, but whatever it was it sure wasn’t this.

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Oh dear god, it’s a peashooter. Amanda and the kid are doomed.

What made this even worse was at some point Brian had thrown a chair into a window creating a decent sized hole that he insisted on constantly walking up to and practically sticking his head through. And every time he would do this all you would hear from the police was either “I can’t get a clean shot” or “Don’t shoot. You might hit the baby.”

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The Head Hole

Seriously? Any idiot can see that the kids are no where near the hole and Brian’s practically walking by the glass with a big “Shoot Here” arrow painted on his forehead. Don’t blame your crappy shooting skills on the innocent children you’re supposed to be saving. WTH?

In the end, Fright is a so-so thriller, with some interesting ideas that may have been refreshing when it was new, but were later done much better by other films. It does have some genuinely disturbing moments and watching Brian slowly loose it is interesting to watch, but it’s not something you haven’t seen before and when you did it was probably much better. If you’re interested in the early evolution of the slasher genre, British thrillers, or terrorized babysitters than this may appeal to you. But if it just sounds old hat, then you might just want to go re-watch Halloween instead.
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Re: What was the last movie you've seen?

Post by dsheinem »

Hey Luke, I thought I'd clarify my disagreement with your points on Rises just so you know where I stand (my rebuttals in bold below). Just friendly banter, don't take it personal!
Luke wrote: Okay, time to defend my position:
Did you not roll your eyes when Blake said "Robin"?

-No, it was a cool little reveal. Did you want there to be red and yellow tights in the bag instead? Not sure a better way to handle it...

Did you not laugh your ass off that Wayne's Lambo was being towed, like he had a bunch of payments left on it?

-I thought it was being towed after Catwoman left it somewhere it shouldn't be or some such. Found stolen cars are often towed...

Did you not think it was so fucking redundant that the audience had to be told Wayne was "broke" over and over and over and over and over and over and over?

-you mean like twice in the fight with Bane and then a few times in the scene where he goes broke financially? I didn't see the problem - were they to use better synonyms?

Was the Talia reveal not blatantly obvious since she snuck into Bruce's room and tried to take over his empire?

-Nope, I didn't see this one coming at all and thought that the reveal about her was very cool and played the audience deception card nicely in typical Nolan fashion.

Okay, the scarecrow cameo was great, but I have no clue what Boring is talking about a Riddler reference.

-I actually thought the Scarecrow cameo was about the most contrived and "unreal" thing in the entire film.


Wasn't Banes demise stupid as all get out? Wasn't it even sillier that all he had to do to prevent death was to just reattach two tubes?

He was no longer "near death" the second Batman was taken off of him, really. I thought that the tubes were just some sort of breathing apparatus or some sort and so yeah - reconnecting them would do the trick. I thought his death was well shot and made for a rewarding (if predicable) scene.


Wasn't it odd that cops with guns ran at a mob while wailing their batons instead of shooting?

-Many cops had guns and were shooting them. There were melee instruments on both sides too.

Kind of weird no one has found the "bat" on top of the roof of a building for eight years.

-AQ answered this one...

Bad writing that Batman would leave so much shit to a guy he's known for less than fifteen minutes.

-Not sure what else is expected...it needs to be kept secret/safe and utilized by someone he trusts and he shares a certain worldview/mindset with Robin.

Everyone on the planet except Gordon could figure out Wayne was Batman. That's dumb.

-I think like 3-4 people across the films figured it out, in at least one or two cases becasue he basically told them (as he did Gordon). That suspension of disbelief is always a part of any superhero film anyway, so I don't get the complaint.


This is the "most emotional"? Hubba-bubba what? If Alfred shedding one tear means more than Bruce losing Rachael, or him losing his parents....just wow.

-My wife, who welled up at the end, concurs that this one was tougher to watch at the end. As viewers we were more invested in Bruce and Alfred than we ever were in Rachel.

Speaking of, why would Wayne say to Robin "The mask helps take care of loved ones", when all of his loved ones have DIED horrific deaths?

-All? How many of his loved ones died actually died because of him being Batman? Don't see much of an argument here.


Why did TDK spend so much time saying "not everyone can be Batman" and TDKR ends with "anyone can be Batman"?

-both ended with "Batman is a symbol" and "the man doesn't matter" - seems consistent.


And again, too predictable. This had little to do with anything but a scene or two (just two actually) from Begins. This is just another Batman movie really, not much of a continuation.

I think there was a lot of overlap with Begins - probably 3-4 flashbacks alone to that film. I feel like you didn't see the same movie.
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Jrecee
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Re: What was the last movie you've seen?

Post by Jrecee »

Dark knight rises. . . .

Awesome. Still just second best, begins was better. But it was still amazing.
Going in I assumed she was Talia, but as the movie went on I wasn't so sure. I'm sure that non-comic geeks were surprised. I was also sure that batman had died until the hints started coming in. Blake's setup as becoming the new batman or a potential sidekick was pretty obvious but I don't think there was any real way to make that a shock while still explaining the situations that lead to that. I was actually expecting him to take on batmans identity during the movie. I don't agree that gordon was stupid for not knowing batman's identity. For one he has always sort of just kept himself in the dark on purpose. He doesn't really want to know. Everyone else who knew only did because of specific circumstances, except for john blake who was really the only leap. But apparently he has a connection/similarity to bruce that lead to that.
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Luke
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Re: What was the last movie you've seen?

Post by Luke »

AppleQueso wrote:
Comparing a movie like The Artist to a friggin' superhero action flick though... why would even you do that? It doesn't even make sense. That's like comparing a novel to a cookbook.
Spoiler tags just to be safe...
That's a huge part of it actually (and you seem to be as bad at analogies as I ;) ).

Is TDKR entertaining? Hell yes.

Is TDKR a great film and an extension of the previous entries? No. No no no.

I'll be the first to admit I see films through film study glasses. Well, "film study" wouldn't be fair as my "studying" amounts to a few classes and watching a shit ton of movies. Perhaps "screenwriting glasses" would be more appropriate.

Yes, I was super hyped. And yes, I actually love the series, but feel it is fair to say I thought Begins dragged at times. I still have my first comic, a Batman comic, and although I like the Nolan-verse of Batman, I was really hoping the finale would be a movie about the world's greatest detective: Batman. There's maybe three minutes of him being a detective, and hours of him sitting or walking around.

There should be more Batman in a Batman movie then there are convoluted supporting cast members. And sure, I bet The Joker had as much, if not more, screen time as Batman in TDK, but he did shit. Walking in an airport (which was also silly) doesn't really count as a good use of storytelling. Yeah, it leads to her arrest, which also was a waste of time.

The hand breaking spinning flip was cool, but served no purpose as apparently you can break out of jail through just one giant wall.

I'm picking nits, but with movies that is what I do. I look at films as an art and an industry from the opening credits to the end. I have to ask myself "Is this the best storyline?", "Is this the best shot?", "What could have been done better?", "What shined?", "Did any moment memorize the entire theater?", "Does this capture or create a memory?".

It isn't arrogance, it is me being critical which I have no issues with when it comes to movies. The last ten minutes of Rises is great, but at the same time I was thinking "Okay, I get it. Shot of Batman's face, shot of the bomb. Shot of Robin's face, shot of the bomb. Shot of Batman's face, shot of the bomb. Another shot of Batman's face, another shot of the bomb". Fucking Independence Day (aka F/7/4) made that sequence better.

Hathaway was great, Hardy certainly earned his degree in eye acting school, and the action was great. But Rises could have been so much better, and the ending could have been much better.

post-This has nothing to do with Nolan saying "Fucking never. No Robin ever in my Batman Trilogy. Never ever."
AppleQueso

Re: What was the last movie you've seen?

Post by AppleQueso »

I really don't care that Batman got comparatively little screen time. I don't care if there's very little focus on his detective work. It's definitely an extension of the previous entries, whether you actually liked it or not. Basically I thoroughly disagree with your assessment in almost every way.

Sorry, man. I walked out of the theater completely satisfied. When I left the theater, it was actually a feeling of "Wow, did 3 hours really just pass?"

You aren't going to convince me that I just watched a lackluster or disappointing film here. Sorry.
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Re: What was the last movie you've seen?

Post by EllertMichael »

Michi wrote: Image
I’m sorry! I should have told you I failed my ‘Common Sense’ course!
Wow. What a great shot. The reflection in the knife is perfect

(thank you guys for using spoiler tags)
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Re: What was the last movie you've seen?

Post by dsheinem »

Luke wrote:
I'll be the first to admit I see films through film study glasses. Well, "film study" wouldn't be fair as my "studying" amounts to a few classes and watching a shit ton of movies. Perhaps "screenwriting glasses" would be more appropriate. "
Yeah, I've taught college film criticism courses and presented film-related scholarship at academc conferences, and I don't see your critiques at all. As a genre film - in a genre generally know for ridiculous and convoluted plots - Rises, like the other Nolan films, is markedly stronger as a script than the vast majority of other superhero flicks. It's also shot and acted better. I feel like your negative opinion comes from the fact that Rises failed to meet your own personal expectations for script and shooting, but it is hard to classify it as a failed film or even as a departure from Nolan's others from any angle I can see.
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