Dreamcast VGA Converter?

[Lonescope]

Hello,

This is my first post here, but I have read the majority of racketboy's articles and often recommend his lists to other people.

Anyway, enough with the introduction, on to the problem.. I have a Dreamcast and want to hook it up to my TV via VGA to get the best picture possible but my TV doesn't have VGA inputs. I have heard from others about some sort of converter which converts a VGA signal to other types of inputs.

Can anyone here shed some light on this converter and describe it a bit? Also, my component inputs are used up on my TV so if this converter involves transmitting the signal through component, I may need to invest in a component box for more inputs. Will running VGA through a converter and then a component box drastically decrease the quality? If so, then by how much?

Thanks in advance,
Lonescope

[NotBlaine]

Hello,

This is my first post here, but I have read the majority of racketboy's articles and often recommend his lists to other people.

Anyway, enough with the introduction, on to the problem.. I have a Dreamcast and want to hook it up to my TV via VGA to get the best picture possible but my TV doesn't have VGA inputs. I have heard from others about some sort of converter which converts a VGA signal to other types of inputs.

Can anyone here shed some light on this converter and describe it a bit? Also, my component inputs are used up on my TV so if this converter involves transmitting the signal through component, I may need to invest in a component box for more inputs. Will running VGA through a converter and then a component box drastically decrease the quality? If so, then by how much?

Thanks in advance,
Lonescope

Well... Okay, where to start.

1) Component vs VGA. The way I now describe it, to make it easy, is Component video is like S-Video+. It's really just S-Video with an extra connection. It's better than S-Video but it's not as good as VGA/SCART/DVI/HDMI. Those last 4 are your RGB signals. If you can't get an RGB signal, then Component is the best choice.

2) Component to VGA. It's a decrease in quality. It'll be better than S-Video but not as good as VGA. How much depends on the quality of the converter.

3) Converter. Is expensive. I did a quick google search and here's what I came up with. Anywhere from $100-$400. See those $20 cables? They won't work. You need an actual box to change the signal. There is one that is $70, but reading the description it might support 480p over component.

4) What you'd need. You wanna make sure that if you go component, you're getting the best picture possible by having a converter that does progressive scan (480p) since VGA is progressive as well. If you don't then the difference between component and s-video gets even closer. The gain, at that point, could be modest (again - depending on the converter. If you got a converter that doesn't do a great job, you might not even be able to notice a real difference).[/url]

[d123456]

Sell your tv and buy a (secondhand) tv with vga inputs.
Please don't get into all of these converters rubbish.
Use your money wisely!

[nateup2]

Keep you TV for your existing systems.

Go buy a larger (22 inch) used CRT computer monitor for your dreamcast. I have hooked mine up to LCDs, Plasmas, and a few CRT monitors and have found the CRTs to put out the best picture for DC. Anyone else agree with this? It just seems like there is much more depth to the color and the darks show up better.

Anyways, my local computer shop had a 22 inch CRT with what I believe is RGB imputs in the back. (they are 3 or four sockets labled R, G, B, and something else, i think.) Does that sound like SCART?

[NotBlaine]

Keep you TV for your existing systems.

Go buy a larger (22 inch) used CRT computer monitor for your dreamcast. I have hooked mine up to LCDs, Plasmas, and a few CRT monitors and have found the CRTs to put out the best picture for DC. Anyone else agree with this? It just seems like there is much more depth to the color and the darks show up better.

Anyways, my local computer shop had a 22 inch CRT with what I believe is RGB imputs in the back. (they are 3 or four sockets labled R, G, B, and something else, i think.) Does that sound like SCART?

Theres'a a good chance that is an analog RGB monitor, which is what you'd need. What's most important is that the monitor will accept a signal of 15khz. Usually on the back of the monitor there's an operating range sticker. If it goes down to 15khz then it's what you need. If it doesn't then you're not really gaining any ground.

[Lonescope]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I don't think this process is going to be as expensive as you guys think it will be if done right, and yes a CRT monitor would be nice, but at the moment I would have nowhere to put it, as it wouldn't fit in any of the rooms I would put it in.

I have been shopping around a lot, and I've found a little 6.98 cable that can be a savior depending on if it works or not.



As for a component selector, I would be considering either purchasing one of these two.




I've read over a hundred reviews concerning these products and every single one seems to agree that they cannot visualize a difference in picture when putting the inputs through the box.

Thanks for the replies,
Lonescope

[NotBlaine]

I have been shopping around a lot, and I've found a little 6.98 cable that can be a savior depending on if it works or not.

It won't work. If you read the comments for that product you'd know that:

1 of 1 people found the following review helpful:
3.0 out of 5 stars NOT for use with a computer, January 25, 2007
By Ogen Perry (Los Altos Hills, CA USA) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)
I made the same mistake as the previous reviewer. It turns out, this cable and others similar to it CANNOT be used to convert a VGA signal from a computer to a composite signal for a television or a receiver. If that is what you are trying to do, you need a much more sophisticated product such as the one made by startech. If your TV has a DVI port, that offers you a much easier solution as VGA-to-DVI cables are cheap and come in many lenghts.

You're totally welcome to take or ignore my advise. Won't affect me either way. But, I'll break it down one more time:

Component Video Is: S-Video on steroids. Believe it, or not, it's more closely related to s-video than it is to vga. S-video works by breaking the video signal up into two wires. Luminance, which is a black and white picture measuring how 'bright' or illuminant the colors are (known as Luma) and Chrominance, which is a measurement of what the colors are (known as Chroma). Component cables takes the same scheme and splits the Chroma into two wires. Don't believe me? Take the green wire from component and plug it into the standard yellow video input on your tv. You'll have a black and white picture. The Green wire in component is Luma. The Blue wire is a mathematical forumla measuring the difference (mathematical difference) between the luma and the blue signal (this is why some people call Component "Difference" or "Blue Difference" video). The red wire is the same, only it's the difference between red and luma.

So you have your Luma and 2 Chroma instead of just 1. With Component you never actually send the green signal. Your mointor/tv can calculate, on the fly, what green should have been because it knows how bright the color should be and knows two of the three colors. The third color is just the one left over.

VGA is an analog RGB signal. It's sending a Red signal, a Green signal, a Blue signal as well as a Sync(s). The sync is used so the display device knows how quickly the screen is being refreshed. This is true of all Analog RGBs and is very similar to what a digital RGB would do (DVI, HDMI).

So. The converter you need has to do, the following:

1) Add the colors together to calculate the overall luminance of the picture (Luma)
2) Calculate the difference between the Luma and the Blue signal and transmit that.
3) Calculate the difference between the Luma and the Red signal and transmit that.
4) Composite the sync and embed it into the Luma (sync on green).

And do this thousands of times per second. It's not a question of buying a wire adapter like you have a 1/4" set of headphones and a 3/8" headphone jack. It's a totally and completely different video signal.

With that said, feel free to do whatever you want. It's your money and time.

[Lonescope]

NotBlaine, I never at any point doubted any of your advice or comments. I thank you because your posts have been by far the most helpful in this thread. Sorry if I seemed like a know-it-all, because in fact I know absolutely nothing about this kind of stuff.

The only reason I posted that cable because racketboy mentioned it in one of his guides titled "Make the Most of Your Sega Dreamcast" so I figured they might work.

Now that that's all said and done, I ask one more question: How big of a difference is VGA and S-Video?

Thanks again,
Lonescope

[NotBlaine]

Now that that's all said and done, I ask one more question: How big of a difference is VGA and S-Video?

Thanks again,
Lonescope

Kinda big. Medium big. It's actually two small reasons added together.

Reason #1: Resolution. VGA is actually a progressive signal. It's 480p to use tv terms. S-Video is 480i, a.k.a. plain ol' tv.
Reason #2: Color & Clarity. S-Video is okay at displaying a picture. It's leaps and bounds over composite or rf. Not as good as Component video. And Component isn't as good as VGA. So it's actually 2 steps below VGA in that regard.

So you'd be sacrificing resolution, color and clarity.

If you do do s-video, your best bet is to just buy a Dreamcast VGA box that has s-video output (and not like a VGA cable or anything).

[nateup2]

No, actually they make a Dreamcast composite/S-video cable. I have one because I think the many 2d DC games (minus Guilty Gear) look better through the s-vid on a regular tv than they do on my VGA monitor. For me, I prefer S-vid for most 2d games from any gen and also pretty much all console games before Dreamcast.

Its nice to have the monitor and tv right there next to my DC so I can switch back and forth.

The difference between VGA and S-vid on most polygon-based dreamcast games is very large, by the way. Large enough that it reveals all the pixels and flaws of most of the 2d titles from that time.