Homosexuality

[brunoafh]

Hey man I was just joking mjmjr. Trying to breath some levity into here.

Honestly your posts/perspective is what this thread is all about, hearing the opinion on the issue from multiple belief systems and viewpoints.

[Bradtemple87]

God gives us grace for our shortcomings as believers in what Jesus did for every person on earth, giving his own life so we may join him in heaven. It's not about facts, it's faith. I believe in what God does in my life everyday because there is purpose behind every action in what God has for our future. I could not explain that to anyone with props or scientific evidence, but I believe it with all my heart because time and time again God has done amazing things in my daily life.

[elmagicochrisg]

peace and love can exist without dogma. and homosexuals (humans) shouldn't be judged by anyone... if someone isn't at odds with someone else's happiness then what harm is being done?

Again, couldn't agree more. To quote myself from page 14...

For me there's no such thing as gay or straight people. Only good and bad people...

Surely you must agree with that mjmj...

I would even go as far as saying this whole thread is pointless if you take the above statement into consideration...

[Flake]

As you've suggested, things like drinking to excess and gambling are forbidden by God, but not illegal under man's law. You would wish them to be illegal because...they are a "sinful temptation"? Should all "sinful temptations" be illegal for everyone, even if they don't believe as you do, just so that there are repercussions in this life for them so as to better discourage you?

This is the exact argument why the infusion of Christianity, Judaism, Islam or any faith into the process of law making (or breaking) terrifies the shit out of me. I think it can safely be said that there are no temporal or secular arguments against gay marriage - so this is an instance where a specific group is having their rights (or lack thereof) dictated to them by people of a religion that they may very well not share.

Isn't that the exact opposite of what this country is supposed to be about? If there is no quantifiable social harm, then how is it fair for someone to be denied something as simple as marriage just to satisfy people of a religion that will tend to its own people? Granted, this instance does not affect me but I think the slippery slope may be a very real thing here. Denying people the right to do things under Christianity does not seem that different to me than Strict Orthodox Judaism or Sharia Law.

To update an old adage: "Marry 'em all and let God sort 'em out." Christianity should tend to its own on this one and leave everyone else be.

[DinnerX]

But if the grounds for those beliefs are rooted solely in religion (and no one has really argued otherwise) don't you see the problem of the state imposing them? Leading up to the Civil War many people cited passages explaining that the Bible condones slavery, but thankfully those "Biblical principles" and "God's unchanging laws" didn't hold sway over the actual legal rights the state could grant to African Americans. Common sense, human rights, and dignity prevailed...

The issue for me is if the Bible says an act is wrong. If the Bible disapproves of something, I do not want a law that approves of it. Having no law is fine, as is having a law against something the Bible is neutral on or does not speak about. The Bible does not say "You must not have slaves to be a good Christian," but it also does not say "You must have slaves to be a good Christian.” Consequently, I don't have a problem being strongly opposed to slavery due to beliefs unrelated to my religion.

I think that the anti same-sex marriage people want to push against the racism comparison, but so many of their arguments are so very similar to those against ending slavery, granting civil rights to other groups, etc. Why would you want to stand on that side of history? I think many of you will be embarrassed to admit you espoused the position you do in anther 25-30 years or so (if not sooner)...

Obviously, I think difference exist between the two situations. If I end up on the losing side that won’t be a big deal. I've been on the unpopular/weird/"wrong" side before and I probably will be again.

This is the exact argument why the infusion of Christianity, Judaism, Islam or any faith into the process of law making (or breaking) terrifies the shit out of me. I think it can safely be said that there are no temporal or secular arguments against gay marriage - so this is an instance where a specific group is having their rights (or lack thereof) dictated to them by people of a religion that they may very well not share.

Every law is infused with something. As long as I'm not dead, I'll be doing my best to shutdown laws infused with something opposed to any of my strong beliefs, religious or otherwise.

[Flake]

Every law is infused with something. As long as I'm not dead, I'll be doing my best to shutdown laws infused with something opposed to any of my strong beliefs, religious or otherwise.

Not exactly the most charitable stance to take. Actually, I cannot think of a more selfish view. How wonderful it must be for you, to live in a society where you are of an insulated majority. To not even know the fear that many have of having their lives arbitrarily mandated by the whims of others. So grand to sleep so well.

[DinnerX]

Every law is infused with something. As long as I'm not dead, I'll be doing my best to shutdown laws infused with something opposed to any of my strong beliefs, religious or otherwise.

Not exactly the most charitable stance to take. Actually, I cannot think of a more selfish view. How wonderful it must be for you, to live in a society where you are of an insulated majority. To not even know the fear that many have of having their lives arbitrarily mandated by the whims of others. So grand to sleep so well.

Everyone opposes laws they disagree with. Isn't that what your doing too essentially?

I didn't say I think all my beliefs merit being made into laws, just that if there is a law I don't want it to be out of line with them.

[Flake]

I didn't say I think all my beliefs merit being made into laws, just that if there is a law I don't want it to be out of line with them.

Yep, even if that law would not affect you in any way shape or form. I gotcha. Moral superiority. Good to go. Must feel pretty swell.

I live in a world where I understand that my moral beliefs will not always mesh perfectly with the other 7.1 billion people on this planet - and that if someone else is doing something that makes them happy but does not detract from my life, it's best to let it be.

[DinnerX]

I live in a world where I understand that my moral beliefs will not always mesh perfectly with the other 7.1 billion people on this planet - and that if someone else is doing something that makes them happy but does not detract from my life, it's best to let it be.

Exactly. If the government took no stance either way on this, everybody wins.

[Flake]

Exactly. If the government took no stance either way on this, everybody wins.

Hey, there we are back at my assertion that you don't understand what it's like not to be in the majority. You think equality is something that just happens? You think fairness is the natural state of things? You think women are voting, Blacks are free, Hispanics are able to own property, Asians are allowed to immigrate, or funds are provided for the poor to go to school because the government did not take a stance?

If you could just for a split second consider this: There are people in this world who are not you, who do not believe in what you believe, have their own lives to live and still deserve a chance to be happy.