Homosexuality

[elmagicochrisg]

I believe homosexuals (some, maybe most, not all) are drawn to the act by nature (and more would be drawn through nurture in the current climate).

I think all of them are drawn to the act by nature...

Same way heterosexuals are drawn to the opposite sex. By nature...

What makes you think it would be any different for gay people?...

[dsheinem]

If you ask me if homosexuals should be married, I would say no. Same reason, it legitimizes something I believe to be sinful.

I believe homosexuals (some, maybe most, not all) are drawn to the act by nature (and more would be drawn through nurture in the current climate).

I believe I am biologically drawn toward gambling and drinking (which leads to the sin of womanizing for me).

If that is equilibrate to "I hate guys", then i'm at a loss and unfortunately not getting my point across

But how does the state granting same sex marriage "legitimize" the act for you personally in any way? It would still be an "illegitimate" act to you and anyone else who wishes to hold to a belief structure that says so, since that belief places "God's unchanging law" far above whatever the state of Minnesota or the United States of America might decide is legal or not. Since you've talked about man's laws as being so ephemeral, why should you care what the state does?

As you've suggested, things like drinking to excess and gambling are forbidden by God, but not illegal under man's law. You would wish them to be illegal because...they are a "sinful temptation"? Should all "sinful temptations" be illegal for everyone, even if they don't believe as you do, just so that there are repercussions in this life for them so as to better discourage you?

[mjmjr25]

But if the grounds for those beliefs are rooted solely in religion (and no one has really argued otherwise) don't you see the problem of the state imposing them?

I think that the anti same-sex marriage people want to push against the racism comparison, but so many of their arguments are so very similar to those against ending slavery, granting civil rights to other groups, etc. Why would you want to stand on that side of history? I think many of you will be embarrassed to admit you espoused the position you do in anther 25-30 years or so (if not sooner)...

As has been covered, if you are living only for the eternal...and most practicing Christians are only living for Christ (and thus the eternal), the ideas of secularism that you are hung up simply aren't on the radar, nor should they be for a practicing Christian (or other religion for that matter).

I think it's a convenience to compare anything deemed as a civil right in the same vein. Again, to that thought, it is just not akin. Racism / Ageism would fall under temporal civil rights issues to you and me both. Homosexual marriage is not, as much as it would serve your purposes to say it is. I could see a loose correlation to feminism perhaps, but not this.

Wide is the path, but narrow is the gate.

[optmusprimenumber]

...If you read the thread, I don't think you will find any gay bashing. Also, the idea of "live and let live" has been addressed in various places in this thread already.

...

I didn't find any gay bashing in this thread, i pointed out that many subscribers of certain religions dig through the "good book" and pull out reasons to hate homosexuals and reasons to restrict their freedom to seek happiness. despite all the good things associated with religion there are still many ugly and horrible things equally associated with it, gay bashing included. i'm not gonna point out things that i didn't say and please don't infer things that i didn't say from what i did say. i never meant to stir up any commotion, i thought i was just adding my thoughts. i never called anyone out.

and just another thought... the only force that seems to have anything substantial against homosexuality is nature... this part goes in that part... good look trying anything else.

[brunoafh]

I believe boastfulness and braggadocia are sinful.

You're doing some mighty fine sinning in that avatar of yours pal.

[dsheinem]

I believe boastfulness and braggadocia are sinful.

You're doing some mighty fine sinning in that avatar of yours pal.

in fairness, that avatar is derived from a thread in which he was mocking boastfulness and braggadocio.

[mjmjr25]

If you ask me if homosexuals should be married, I would say no. Same reason, it legitimizes something I believe to be sinful.

I believe homosexuals (some, maybe most, not all) are drawn to the act by nature (and more would be drawn through nurture in the current climate).

I believe I am biologically drawn toward gambling and drinking (which leads to the sin of womanizing for me).

If that is equilibrate to "I hate guys", then i'm at a loss and unfortunately not getting my point across

But how does the state granting same sex marriage "legitimize" the act for you personally in any way? It would still be an "illegitimate" act to you and anyone else who wishes to hold to a belief structure that says so, since that belief places "God's unchanging law" far above whatever the state of Minnesota or the United States of America might decide is legal or not. Since you've talked about man's laws as being so ephemeral, why should you care what the state does?

Ok, repeating myself here. You asked for reasons in your OP, "what...why" would folks oppose gay marriage. I explained why I would.

I don't care what the state does. I stated pages ago I don't take time away from my family to go hold signs, I don't actively advocate against gay marriage or well, anything.

It was a hypothetical, "If someone called me up and said would you support a gay marriage amendment?" I would say, "no".

As for legitimizing - do you recall "Back to the Future", when Biff was a bigshot, owned a casino, everyone was prostituting themselves, drunk, gambling, thieving, etc. That is legitimizing - for those people, those are "acceptable" behaviors.

Would a path to heaven be easier in present day American be more attainable today, or in that world where immoral behaviors are legitimized? I assume you can see the relation there? So, that is why "I care". I want my children to join me in Eternal Glory, and it is getting harder and harder with the arguments being made (as predicted in Revelation). That is why "I care".

I stated many times in this thread - there is a divide. If you don't have Christ in your life, or at a minimum won't acknowledge He could be your Saviour, then it is an impasse as we are thinking on different planes.

[dsheinem]

It was a hypothetical, "If someone called me up and said would you support a gay marriage amendment?" I would say, "no". ...


I stated many times in this thread - there is a divide. If you don't have Christ in your life, or at a minimum won't acknowledge He could be your Saviour, then it is an impasse as we are thinking on different planes.

Fair enough on the question in the OP, but the conversation has almost always been about rights, despite your avoidance of that idea or your claiming that gay rights are not civil rights (an inane proposition, frankly).

I guess if you keep your beliefs to yourself, than fine - But the second you would you vote on the issue in such a way as to define state law on your biblical ideal you are forcing your belief onto and infringing upon the rights and happiness of people on this here other plane of existence we call everyday life. Agree?

[mjmjr25]

I believe boastfulness and braggadocia are sinful.

You're doing some mighty fine sinning in that avatar of yours pal.

Well, pal, as I said:

I sin everyday.

I've made posts I felt were reactionary and mean-spirited and deleted them. I've been braggadocius many times - and I delete often as I re-read my posts, and question my intent for the post.

I don't point out others sins (and no, this thread isn't some homosexual witchhunt, it is/was, an attempt to explain perspective on where beliefs, opinions and thoughts are held, and why they are held).

I wouldn't point out your sins, Alex, and for anyone who did, I would suggest they didn't.

I'll bow out here - i've attempted to explain what and why I believe what I believe.

At this point too many people are joining the thread and forming unfortunate opinions and that certainly wasn't my intent when choosing to participate in the thread

[optmusprimenumber]

I stated many times in this thread - there is a divide. If you don't have Christ in your life, or at a minimum won't acknowledge He could be your Saviour, then it is an impasse as we are thinking on different planes.

there was a quote by Ghandi, i believe, something to the effect of "i like your christ, but i do not like your christians, they are not like your christ"

and come 'on dude, just cuz someone doesn't subscribe to the bible doesn't mean he is without christ, "christ" belongs to no one, all righteous paths climb the same mountain...

going further on that note -
for all the "saving of godless folk" many christians seem to think they are responsible for, there is an equal amount of "godless" people who would love to see a devout christian (for example) be talked out of their daze...

...christianity is a spin off of paganism and egyptian myths and greek myths... ...its way off about the age of civilizations... ...aaaaaand dinosaurs... among other things

peace and love can exist without dogma. and homosexuals (humans) shouldn't be judged by anyone... if someone isn't at odds with someone else's happiness then what harm is being done?

one of the things i like about buddhism is that it plainly states (in these or other words) that every living thing on this planet wants happiness and does not want hardships, so contribute to happiness and don't contribute to hardships be virtuous

*please don't mistake my subjective comments for anything otherwise, just as with homosexuals, "to each his own"