Actually, realised something - when i'd been testing the DreamCast i'd had the PlayStation type joystick working off the same pins as the ones going in the case for the GameCube joysticks in the Master Controller; so logically, the parts on the board in the post above probably aren't resistors, especially as they aren't marked as logically the PlayStaton joystick attached would not have worked properly without them either. When I tested the DreamCast before putting the 2K resistors in place, the difference would have literally been the difference in the resistance in the stock joysticks. That means using the 2K resistors on both grounds actually made the difference.
I now have to work out with the pots for the shoulder buttons (the two orange parts in the above pic), and test on a few games to see as best I can that they are set up to work on tacts instead, and wire those up.
Bacteria's project: "Project Unity"
Re: Bacteria's project: "Project Unity" (formally: Alpha Ome
I am the Bacman
Re: Bacteria's project: "Project Unity" (formally: Alpha Ome
Learnt quite a bit from experimentation.
Firstly, 2k ohm resistor on each ground connection on the joystick works great, tried 2.6k resistors, no difference so went back to 2k again.
On the shoulder buttons, tried Ashen's method (in the GameCube section for using rubber topped tact switches instead of analogue shoulder buttons), didn't work or at least didn't seem to on this DreamCast board. Tried using normal pots from PlayStation joysticks to connect to the original connections but the connections were so sensitive as to be no use; might be as found out later when used original pots from the analogue shoulder buttons that it does matter which way around the 5v and ground go even when the pots are at rest, which isn't normally the case (might be why Ashen's guide didn't work for this).
So, set to more experimentation - wired up the analogue shoulder connections to the pots that came with the controller originally, and all works. I then managed to connect ground + data on one tact (left shoulder) and got that working perfectly with a rubber tact switch, and on the other side, had to use ground + 5v line to get that one working.
Tested the joystick and also both shoulder buttons (using digital rubber tact switches) on Wacky Races, and it all works perfectly! The shoulder buttons feel just like the original analogue shoulder pots did to use!
Somehow got X and Y buttons wired to the wrong contacts so going to rectify that, and wire the tacts to the contacts to the pins in the master controller, then can put the DreamCast into final testing!
Great, worked it all out!! (I'm quite pleased with myself!)
Will of course test with a couple of other games too during testing to make sure all works fine.
Interestingly also, mentioned before about needing to switch off the system at both switches, tried system leaving the main switch on but the separate one to the console off, then on again, and it didn't recognise the memory card - switched both switches off as normal and then back on again, and all fine. Just confirmed what I already found before, which is fine.
Going to make the revised buttons for the system rather special to take this into account!
Firstly, 2k ohm resistor on each ground connection on the joystick works great, tried 2.6k resistors, no difference so went back to 2k again.
On the shoulder buttons, tried Ashen's method (in the GameCube section for using rubber topped tact switches instead of analogue shoulder buttons), didn't work or at least didn't seem to on this DreamCast board. Tried using normal pots from PlayStation joysticks to connect to the original connections but the connections were so sensitive as to be no use; might be as found out later when used original pots from the analogue shoulder buttons that it does matter which way around the 5v and ground go even when the pots are at rest, which isn't normally the case (might be why Ashen's guide didn't work for this).
So, set to more experimentation - wired up the analogue shoulder connections to the pots that came with the controller originally, and all works. I then managed to connect ground + data on one tact (left shoulder) and got that working perfectly with a rubber tact switch, and on the other side, had to use ground + 5v line to get that one working.
Tested the joystick and also both shoulder buttons (using digital rubber tact switches) on Wacky Races, and it all works perfectly! The shoulder buttons feel just like the original analogue shoulder pots did to use!
Somehow got X and Y buttons wired to the wrong contacts so going to rectify that, and wire the tacts to the contacts to the pins in the master controller, then can put the DreamCast into final testing!
Great, worked it all out!! (I'm quite pleased with myself!)
Will of course test with a couple of other games too during testing to make sure all works fine.
Interestingly also, mentioned before about needing to switch off the system at both switches, tried system leaving the main switch on but the separate one to the console off, then on again, and it didn't recognise the memory card - switched both switches off as normal and then back on again, and all fine. Just confirmed what I already found before, which is fine.
Going to make the revised buttons for the system rather special to take this into account!
I am the Bacman
Re: Bacteria's project: "Project Unity" (formally: Alpha Ome
4 updates in one post!
----------------
DreamCast finished, updated my sig.
Worked out how to get the analogue shoulders working with digital buttons, and also altered the resistance of the joystick to work with a GameCube one.
----------------
jinn on the Racketboy forum very kindly offered to post me a Saturn region free BIOS chip, for free; received today, generous of him to do so, sent me three too! I'd only posted in someone's Saturn thread to post a comment, and someone else (jinn) PMed me and offered me some free samples! COol!
I will install them in my spare Saturn at some point when I get a chance/round to it. I don't have any non PAL games but will get one when i'm doing the mod off ebay to test.
-----------------
Going to experiment with a total revamp of the system and power selectors.
At the moment, I need to make sure the only console that will get power (grounding to be exact) is the one I want to, and for that matter the only system getting its audio, video and controller connections connected is the one about to be used. At the moment, an LED indicates the latter and would be easy to rig up one for the ground connections however have a better idea.
I might not be able to pull it off as it will need to be reliable, however i'm going to attempt to make my own 18 pole 18 throw switch, which will automatically not only connect all the above console lines but also the grounding. It's going to be a slider to select the system, and just a main on/off switch for all systems.
I've worked out how i'll make it however will be fiddly and won't know how well it works until I start making it. If I can make it work ok, it will really improve the looks of the Unity system as will allow for a few nice extra features I can then implement.
This is something that I don't think has been done before, will be interesting to see if I can make it work and make it feel right to use.
----------------------
Ok, taking shape! Here's the idea. Two rows of 9 connections to give 18 connections per console (8 for A/V, 8 for controller, one for master ground, one for awkward systems like PS2 that need two different ground sources = 18)
I've used 3 amp wire, stripped enough to bend around a piece of wood, superglued in place, and to stop shorts, put in a normal wire to act as insulator; superglued.
Did this as a test to confirm it will work ok - used a piece of solid wire (not stranded as above wire) and bent around pliers; there is enough spring in this to rub along the thick wires and make contact. Basically, i'm replicating a cart slot and traces. I can't use normal traces like a butchered game cart as soldering to the traces will make a bump and also these traces would have a problem with the voltage amps. By using thick wire, it is fine for all the systems being used, easy to solder to.
Might remove the red wires (insulators) and replace with 1mm thick styrene, to act as runners, not sure yet, but would make sense.
Basically, going to make 34 sets of 9 connections, and a flat area so the above springy pins can move smoothly against between the wires to not damage them, and as the block with the 18 springy pins move along each set of two of the 34 sets of 9 connections, will activate a different console. (34 / 2 = 17 systems).
I just need to take care and make each set of 34 poles the same!
This will work!
----------------
DreamCast finished, updated my sig.
Worked out how to get the analogue shoulders working with digital buttons, and also altered the resistance of the joystick to work with a GameCube one.
----------------
jinn on the Racketboy forum very kindly offered to post me a Saturn region free BIOS chip, for free; received today, generous of him to do so, sent me three too! I'd only posted in someone's Saturn thread to post a comment, and someone else (jinn) PMed me and offered me some free samples! COol!
I will install them in my spare Saturn at some point when I get a chance/round to it. I don't have any non PAL games but will get one when i'm doing the mod off ebay to test.
-----------------
Going to experiment with a total revamp of the system and power selectors.
At the moment, I need to make sure the only console that will get power (grounding to be exact) is the one I want to, and for that matter the only system getting its audio, video and controller connections connected is the one about to be used. At the moment, an LED indicates the latter and would be easy to rig up one for the ground connections however have a better idea.
I might not be able to pull it off as it will need to be reliable, however i'm going to attempt to make my own 18 pole 18 throw switch, which will automatically not only connect all the above console lines but also the grounding. It's going to be a slider to select the system, and just a main on/off switch for all systems.
I've worked out how i'll make it however will be fiddly and won't know how well it works until I start making it. If I can make it work ok, it will really improve the looks of the Unity system as will allow for a few nice extra features I can then implement.
This is something that I don't think has been done before, will be interesting to see if I can make it work and make it feel right to use.
----------------------
Ok, taking shape! Here's the idea. Two rows of 9 connections to give 18 connections per console (8 for A/V, 8 for controller, one for master ground, one for awkward systems like PS2 that need two different ground sources = 18)
I've used 3 amp wire, stripped enough to bend around a piece of wood, superglued in place, and to stop shorts, put in a normal wire to act as insulator; superglued.
Did this as a test to confirm it will work ok - used a piece of solid wire (not stranded as above wire) and bent around pliers; there is enough spring in this to rub along the thick wires and make contact. Basically, i'm replicating a cart slot and traces. I can't use normal traces like a butchered game cart as soldering to the traces will make a bump and also these traces would have a problem with the voltage amps. By using thick wire, it is fine for all the systems being used, easy to solder to.
Might remove the red wires (insulators) and replace with 1mm thick styrene, to act as runners, not sure yet, but would make sense.
Basically, going to make 34 sets of 9 connections, and a flat area so the above springy pins can move smoothly against between the wires to not damage them, and as the block with the 18 springy pins move along each set of two of the 34 sets of 9 connections, will activate a different console. (34 / 2 = 17 systems).
I just need to take care and make each set of 34 poles the same!
This will work!
I am the Bacman
Re: Bacteria's project: "Project Unity" (formally: Alpha Ome
Progress!
Made the first two of the 34 strips and secured into place. Using 2mm styrene piece to separate the pieces, the total thickness of two of these strips and also 2 thicknesses of styrene is 22mm, which is exactly the width I need, so can have all 17 sets of contacts on one strip horizontally at the top of the Unity casing, not on the left side as per now.
Going to superglue wires onto the red wires, as continual lengths, which will act as runners for the springy pins contacts.
Lots to do yet on this, however I don't see why the end result won't work, and be better than the existing (old) method with the banks of switches.
Made the first two of the 34 strips and secured into place. Using 2mm styrene piece to separate the pieces, the total thickness of two of these strips and also 2 thicknesses of styrene is 22mm, which is exactly the width I need, so can have all 17 sets of contacts on one strip horizontally at the top of the Unity casing, not on the left side as per now.
Going to superglue wires onto the red wires, as continual lengths, which will act as runners for the springy pins contacts.
Lots to do yet on this, however I don't see why the end result won't work, and be better than the existing (old) method with the banks of switches.
I am the Bacman
Re: Bacteria's project: "Project Unity" (formally: Alpha Ome
Busy picking off superglue from my fingers at the moment before going back for a short while to make another 9 contact strip before going to bed. Got 4 made so far, you get the idea how this part is progressing at least - slowly! At this rate, will take me another 7-10 days in evenings to get all 34 strips made, then a few days to make the top section (slider unit).
I am the Bacman
Re: Bacteria's project: "Project Unity" (formally: Alpha Ome
Changed the design, the one i'd used was very time consuming, taking about 50 mins to make a strip and might prove hard to align the contacts later as would have had to be fairly exact.
New design, Mark 2 version! Simple design. Same functionality. Means faster to make a strip, about 15 mins each now, and also the wire contacts are further apart so will make it far easier to marry the contacts together.
Old design on left, new one on right, in progress.
New design, Mark 2 version! Simple design. Same functionality. Means faster to make a strip, about 15 mins each now, and also the wire contacts are further apart so will make it far easier to marry the contacts together.
Old design on left, new one on right, in progress.
I am the Bacman
Re: Bacteria's project: "Project Unity" (formally: Alpha Ome
No idea how many people here are following this project log, but hey, another update:
Ok, finished the base, 16 sets of two strips, 8 normal wires on each plus a thick wire (for ground); so in other words, 18 pole 16 throw. Now need to make an attachment, and the slider with connections, also tin all the connections at the back, and make mountings.
Ok, finished the base, 16 sets of two strips, 8 normal wires on each plus a thick wire (for ground); so in other words, 18 pole 16 throw. Now need to make an attachment, and the slider with connections, also tin all the connections at the back, and make mountings.
I am the Bacman
-
AppleQueso
Re: Bacteria's project: "Project Unity" (formally: Alpha Ome
Trust me, plenty of us are following this!bacteria wrote:No idea how many people here are following this project log, but hey, another update
There's usually just not a lot to say though. Sometimes it's hard to see just what you're doing until it starts coming together. It's rather fascinating actually!
Re: Bacteria's project: "Project Unity" (formally: Alpha Ome
I try and keep this thread updated, I post everything on my forum thread and then think "dammit, not uploaded to RacketBoy for a while, better catch up the thread! lol
It was fiddly making all those connections and had occasions where the superglue was sticking my fingers together and to the tools I was holding (finger tips and ends only as was being fairly careful!). Issue was each wire needed superglue to stick the wire into place, and had to be pressed to the wood to stick; that was 18 x 16 x 2 sides = 576 gluings.
Onto the fun part now, going to make the slider, and also have it so an LED shines against the console logo as it moves along!
It was fiddly making all those connections and had occasions where the superglue was sticking my fingers together and to the tools I was holding (finger tips and ends only as was being fairly careful!). Issue was each wire needed superglue to stick the wire into place, and had to be pressed to the wood to stick; that was 18 x 16 x 2 sides = 576 gluings.
Onto the fun part now, going to make the slider, and also have it so an LED shines against the console logo as it moves along!
I am the Bacman
Re: Bacteria's project: "Project Unity" (formally: Alpha Ome
Made start on the slider; the idea is to make 18 posts that have metal contacts that are wide enough to make contact with the wires above, so need a 1mm tolerance, and also each pin can raise/lower by a couple of millimeters as the contact points will be marginally different; also each of the 18 pins need to be independent or you won't get contact will all pins at all times. This means making contacts a bit like in a household lock, a bit like this principle in a way (although not the same):
So, i've made one of the 18 so far, i've used a 2.5mm thick metal strip (from old console shielding metal) and superguled to a plastic rod. Both sets of 9x2 rods will be against each other to stop movement in one plane, and to stop them rotating and causing shorts, and to also stop movement in the other plane, cut a whole into the rod for a thinner rod to go through, allowing the internal rod to move about for about 2mm up and down. For this "piston" effect, can either use some foam, or better still, i'll pop to a stationers and get some cheap biros, the ones you press the top button for the biro to pop in/out of the pen, as they have small springs inside that might be useful. I can buy some pens cheaply at a supermarket for this; springs will last a lifetime and be far better than foam after all.
So far, theory into practice - I can see this working now so "green light"!
So, i've made one of the 18 so far, i've used a 2.5mm thick metal strip (from old console shielding metal) and superguled to a plastic rod. Both sets of 9x2 rods will be against each other to stop movement in one plane, and to stop them rotating and causing shorts, and to also stop movement in the other plane, cut a whole into the rod for a thinner rod to go through, allowing the internal rod to move about for about 2mm up and down. For this "piston" effect, can either use some foam, or better still, i'll pop to a stationers and get some cheap biros, the ones you press the top button for the biro to pop in/out of the pen, as they have small springs inside that might be useful. I can buy some pens cheaply at a supermarket for this; springs will last a lifetime and be far better than foam after all.
So far, theory into practice - I can see this working now so "green light"!
I am the Bacman