Homosexuality

[ninjainspandex]

The bible says "you shall not lay with another man as you do a women for that is an abomination". What if you have gay sex standing up? /trollface

[mjmjr25]

One argument that I can't stand in regards to this issue is "I don't hate homosexuals, but I don't think they should be allowed to (insert human right here)." This is a blatant contradiction; if you truly don't hate homosexuals, then you would want them to have the same rights as straight people.

I'll start off by saying these threads are really tough to get into, because by the time you reply, so many other posts are made, or it's just so tough to make an argument, because it isn't the sort of thing explained in a paragraph.

I'll respond to this comment first. That statement would not be a contradiction, let alone blatant. It is the same as, "I don't hate pedophiles, but I don't think they should be allowed to work in my child's school." That is a true statement - not a contradiction.

From the Christian perspective, we are all sinners, as such, we do not hate the sinners, we hate the sin. I sin everyday, and for that reason, among others, I try not to judge, but I certainly have a belief system that I try to live my life by.

To Dave's point about proof of a biological link. Is there not the same proof to biological links to pedophilia. I don't know if there is or isn't proof on either, I know some believe there is proof. My question to you, those who believe in biological proof, so then anyone whom is biologically prone to pedophilia, or sociopathic murder should be condoned? That is the argument you are making, from my perception of that argument. We can't disagree with something if we see a biological reason for it? So we can't disagree with the act of pedophilia?

Hobie wrote: "We'd like to know if there's a reason you think the way you do other than 'because my parents/church told me' without presenting any evidence"

I'd counter that with, "Isn't this where all of your morals evolved from?" From your parents, your friends, your church? And of those, most are religion based. Why is it wrong to steal? From my belief system, it is identified as a sin. For those not religious, explain to me why you think it is wrong?

What about adultery? You may think it is wrong, but you are not religious. It is a biological want - is it not - is your body, your eyes, your groin not telling you, "I want that. That looks good." So even if it is a biological want - it is still wrong, no?

Same question, if you are not religious, do you think adultery is wrong? Why? Most likely it is something instilled in you and your upbringing and it emanated from religious teachings. Now it is part of your moral code but you may not see the religious connection. Before Christ, the Greek and Roman cultures were awhiff with pedophilia, homosexuality, fornication and adultery. Now most of those behaviors are frowned upon by the religious and the non-religious. Only the kicker is, those changes of morality were all triggered by religion, the moral code has stuck, the religious aspect has left.

[dsheinem]

One argument that I can't stand in regards to this issue is "I don't hate homosexuals, but I don't think they should be allowed to (insert human right here)." This is a blatant contradiction; if you truly don't hate homosexuals, then you would want them to have the same rights as straight people.

I'll start off by saying these threads are really tough to get into, because by the time you reply, so many other posts are made, or it's just so tough to make an argument, because it isn't the sort of thing explained in a paragraph.

I'll respond to this comment first. That statement would not be a contradiction, let alone blatant. It is the same as, "I don't hate pedophiles, but I don't think they should be allowed to work in my child's school." That is a true statement - not a contradiction.

From the Christian perspective, we are all sinners, as such, we do not hate the sinners, we hate the sin. I sin everyday, and for that reason, among others, I try not to judge, but I certainly have a belief system that I try to live my life by.

To Dave's point about proof of a biological link. Is there not the same proof to biological links to pedophilia. I don't know if there is or isn't proof on either, I know some believe there is proof. My question to you, those who believe in biological proof, so then anyone whom is biologically prone to pedophilia, or sociopathic murder should be condoned? That is the argument you are making, from my perception of that argument. We can't disagree with something if we see a biological reason for it? So we can't disagree with the act of pedophilia?

Hobie wrote: "We'd like to know if there's a reason you think the way you do other than 'because my parents/church told me' without presenting any evidence"

I'd counter that with, "Isn't this where all of your morals evolved from?" From your parents, your friends, your church? And of those, most are religion based. Why is it wrong to steal? From my belief system, it is identified as a sin. For those not religious, explain to me why you think it is wrong?

What about adultery? You may think it is wrong, but you are not religious. It is a biological want - is it not - is your body, your eyes, your groin not telling you, "I want that. That looks good." So even if it is a biological want - it is still wrong, no?

Same question, if you are not religious, do you think adultery is wrong? Why? Most likely it is something instilled in you and your upbringing and it emanated from religious teachings. Now it is part of your moral code but you may not see the religious connection. Before Christ, the Greek and Roman cultures were awhiff with pedophilia, homosexuality, fornication and adultery. Now most of those behaviors are frowned upon by the religious and the non-religious. Only the kicker is, those changes of morality were all triggered by religion, the moral code has stuck, the religious aspect has left.

Sorry, I don't get your analogies at all. Pedophilia, theft, and adultery hurt other people - there are victims. Homosexuality is not a victimizing act. The others are sins/illegal/wrong becasue of the consequences.

[Luke]

It is the same as, "I don't hate pedophiles, but I don't think they should be allowed to work in my child's school."

Nope.

Not the same. Comparing gays to pedophiles is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way.

[mjmjr25]

Dave, societies determine what is illegal. Sex with a 12 year old is legal in some countries, illegal in others.

Homosexuality is illegal in Saudi Arabia, so it is wrong then?

I don't understand where legality/illegality comes in to play, at all, for a personal belief.

As for a victim. Your definition of victim is completely subjective.

Is a 15yo girl who consents to sex a victim? Some would say yes, some would say no.

Is an 18yo who consents to homosexual sex a victim? Some would say yes, some would say no.

How do you define victim? If a young boy is taught that homosexuality is not a sin against God, then to me, that person is a victim of those who are influencing him. Just like the 8yo whom is molested by his uncle is a victim.

[sbk]

I am pro Homosexual and wish I was one. Alas I was born with the whole liking the opposite gender.

[mjmjr25]

It is the same as, "I don't hate pedophiles, but I don't think they should be allowed to work in my child's school."

Nope.

Not the same. Comparing gays to pedophiles is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way.

How so? Both biologically driven, apparently.

I'm not worried about rubbing people the wrong way, the analogy is sound.

Homosexuality is frowned upon more than pedophilia in some cultures. The Christian teachings are not relegated to America, let alone a video gaming forum.

EDIT: @ninja / sbk - read the OP again. The one-liners don't help debate. Save them for the top 100 threads.

[brunoafh]

Honestly, I'm pretty much completely indifferent to the whole thing. From a personal standpoint, I think it's... weird? As in I can't imagine being attracted to another dude, and don't understand what would drive members of the same sex to be sexually attracted to each other. I dunno, to each his own. Like I said I really don't care. Heck, my current girlfriend is bisexual (I don't really understand this either) and has dated as many females as males. It's no sweat off my neck if a guy decides to start taking it from behind or if a girl decides she wants to give scissoring a go.

I think most of my indifference stems from the fact I wasn't raised religious at all and am not a religious person by any means. There is one thing that can become irritating to me though, males that act very flamboyant and basically shove their orientation your face. It's not the gay factor that bothers me, just the obnoxiousness of it. When I was living with my mom she had a flamboyantly gay guy living in the house for some insane reason, that was extremely weird and I felt like I had to stay out of the house as much as possible, and showering became a covert operation. So that's probably why the flamboyants irritate me.

[dsheinem]

Dave, societies determine what is illegal. Sex with a 12 year old is legal in some countries, illegal in others.

Homosexuality is illegal in Saudi Arabia, so it is wrong then?

I don't understand where legality/illegality comes in to play, at all, for a personal belief.

As for a victim. Your definition of victim is completely subjective.

Is a 15yo girl who consents to sex a victim? Some would say yes, some would say no.

Is an 18yo who consents to homosexual sex a victim? Some would say yes, some would say no.

How do you define victim? If a young boy is taught that homosexuality is not a sin against God, then to me, that person is a victim of those who are influencing him. Just like the 8yo whom is molested by his uncle is a victim.

This is very simple.

18 is the age of "adulthood" not becasue of some magical "pick an age out of a hat" but becasue that is when puberty generally stops for both men and women and hormones stop impacting decision-making as much. The brain continues to physically grow/mature for a few more years (into the early 20s), but 18 is the recognized age of legal decision-making and independence for largely scientific rationale. So no, a consenting 15 year old is not the same as a consenting 18 year old, for good reason.

My definition of victim is not subjective, it is simply defined as someone being hurt (mentally and/or physically). There is a mountain of evidence to suggest pedophilia causes severe trauma for the underage person at the time and then throughout their life. Homosexual sex in and of itself does not. If someone is biologically inclined to hurt others, we rightfully treat them or incarcerate them. If they are biologically inclined to love people of the same sex who reciprocate those feelings, then I don't see the need to interfere. There is no victim.

I get that societies determine what is legal but no, I don't think that all laws are good ones simply becasue they are agreed upon. Saudi Arabia's laws are largely grounded in religious beliefs, and as a result many people suffer for behaviors and desires that they have no biological control over.

[puke_face]

I personally think that homosexuals have just as much right as I do to be happy. If they want to get married, let them get married. It's no skin off my ass. I'm a live and let live sort of person, so long as you don't try to push your views onto me.