Nerds and Male Privilege

[o.pwuaioc]

No, I didn't prove your point.

My point was that she saying what General_Norris said she should say would immediately get her labeled a bitch. G_N said no it wouldn't, then you implied that it would by saying that whoever would do that sort of action would earn such a label.

It doesn't just matter what The PR guy thinks, but it matters also what the other people who heard what happened directly or indirectly think. Would all of them call her/him a name to dismiss his/her actions?

That's the crux of the argument, isn't it? Many people have shown that such actions are not isolated and committed by a few individuals, but are indicative of a blatant anti-female gaming culture.

Someone mentioned Rosa Parks and I guarantee, the bus driver thought she was being a "B" and some of the passengers did too, but we all know that is not what everyone thought. If we all just go along thinking about what others would think of us nothing would ever change.

The contexts of the situations are entirely different.

I am not saying everyone needs to stand up for themselves, you should only do what makes you happy. If being complacent makes you happy and dealing with what you don't like then fine, we can't change everything that makes us unhappy.

How is writing an article highlighting the issue and initiating conversation not standing up for herself and being complacent?

[o.pwuaioc]

I'm not sure (nor does it matter) what gender or group or individual is more "judged". At that stage this isn't just a female issue at all, and some when being judged are in "groups" (sometimes up to "groups" of a single individual) that are much smaller than "half the population".

When we still get blatantly sexist threads like this and this, yes, sexism clearly exists even in this otherwise decent forum. I would argue, however, that here it at least seems like these individuals are sexist, and that this forum as a whole isn't promoting a culture of sexism that I can see.

[pepharytheworm]

I am not saying everyone needs to stand up for themselves, you should only do what makes you happy. If being complacent makes you happy and dealing with what you don't like then fine, we can't change everything that makes us unhappy.

How is writing an article highlighting the issue and initiating conversation not standing up for herself and being complacent?

I don't remember saying that the person who wrote article didn't in any way stand up for herself, but I was mostly talking about irixith's post which I thought was the current disscussion. And the reason I didn't prove your point is because I found your point pointless, which I thought I explained.

[o.pwuaioc]

I am not saying everyone needs to stand up for themselves, you should only do what makes you happy. If being complacent makes you happy and dealing with what you don't like then fine, we can't change everything that makes us unhappy.

How is writing an article highlighting the issue and initiating conversation not standing up for herself and being complacent?

I don't remember saying that the person who wrote article didn't in any way stand up for herself, but I was mostly talking about irixith's post which I thought was the current disscussion. And the reason I didn't prove your point is because I found your point pointless, which I thought I explained.

You're a bit out of touch with the conversation. Might want to reread this again and go from there.

http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 92#p631992

[pepharytheworm]

You're a bit out of touch with the conversation. Might want to reread this again and go from there.

http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 92#p631992

We obviously didn't get the same thing out of her post, not that I didn't read it, but that doesn't call for being condescending.

[o.pwuaioc]

You're a bit out of touch with the conversation. Might want to reread this again and go from there.

http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 92#p631992

We obviously didn't get the same thing out of her post, not that I didn't read it, but that doesn't call for being condescending.

Not being condescending, just stating that (I thought) you missed that post. I'm really not sure how you're missing the question "How does a female confront the issue when it's experienced, without coming off as...a bitch" with "Taking the E3 article as an example" as the example given for use. How can that be read in any different way?

[pepharytheworm]

You're a bit out of touch with the conversation. Might want to reread this again and go from there.

http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 92#p631992

We obviously didn't get the same thing out of her post, not that I didn't read it, but that doesn't call for being condescending.

Not being condescending, just stating that (I thought) you missed that post. I'm really not sure how you're missing the question "How does a female confront the issue when it's experienced, without coming off as...a bitch" with "Taking the E3 article as an example" as the example given for use. How can that be read in any different way?

You are not hearing my answer, yes people might think of you as a Bitch, but you shouldn't let that stop you. Not everyone will think of you that way.

Now taking her post:

So here's a question then, not necessarily specifically directed at you, but you seem to be interested in this thread.

How does a female confront the issue when it's experienced, without coming off as..

..a bitch?
..a man-hating dyke?
..being on her period?
..etc.

Taking the E3 article as an example, she's feeling a lot of things that are naturally going to result in being defensive. How do you not make the PR guy respond on the defensive himself?

She doesn't seem to just be referring to the incident but any similar indecent. Of course I could be wrong only irixith can answer that, but that's what I got from it.

But out of curiosity how do you think I missed the post when I stated irixith's name and you wrote reread?

[Jmustang1968]

Well for the E3 article... I am a few days late on the initial discussion...

I think there are a few things that haven't been mentioned yet. I think many media coverage companies hire attractive women to be the face/voice of articles/videos and go to media events. These women may not necessarily be gamers all the time. The PR guy could have based his reaction on previous encounters with such media members. Is that an indication of sexism in gaming? Yes, but this is indicative across culture. Companies like putting their attractive employees in positions that garner attention or face time. Examples: Hostesses, models (duh), PR, front desk assistants, news anchors etc. This goes for both genders.

But anyway, she also did say she was just staring at the screen and not playing but soaking it in. I could see how a PR guy could potentially draw the conclusion she didn't know how to play. Then if he doesn't help her, and she didn't actually know how to play, she could have potentially given bad press how they weren't customer friendly and weren't helpful etc... Though, he definitely could have handled it better for sure. If he asked her if she could use help or assistance and answer any questions she had would have been more appropriate instead of just taking over the keyboard and insisting he play for her.

I embrace more female gamers. It helps out our community, and I love the fact my wife is an avid gamer as well. I couldn't imagine being with someone who didn't at least play some games. Reading her article, I have a hard time judging how much of her experiences were truly sexist injustices or how much of it she was seeking out as she was being sensitive to any perceived injustice. I am not saying she wasn't treated in a sexist way at all, but when someone is seeking out something like that to identify it, they can potentially interpret harmless or non sexist treat as being sexist or unjust. Sometimes certain people treat others badly or rudely and it isn't because they are of a certain gender or race or attractiveness. But when she is obviously very self conscious about being a female gamer, she can possibly attribute any slight as being because she is female.

I am not completely dismissing her claims though. I think there is probably a mix of both in there. Sexism definitely exists and will always exist to a degree as society has traditional perceived gender roles. Gaming has been historically dominated by a male demographic so it is obvious it would be susceptible to sexism. It won't go away, but it will get better once it more female gamers play the mainstream games. Then it wont be such a shock to the system. Any cultural type change in a demographic meets resistance, right or wrong.

[o.pwuaioc]

You are not hearing my answer, yes people might think of you as a Bitch, but you shouldn't let that stop you. Not everyone will think of you that way.

That's not the question.

But out of curiosity how do you think I missed the post when I stated irixith's name and you wrote reread?

You can "read" it without really reading it. You apparently did again since you failed to offer an answer to the question.

[pepharytheworm]

You are not hearing my answer, yes people might think of you as a Bitch, but you shouldn't let that stop you. Not everyone will think of you that way.

That's not the question.

But out of curiosity how do you think I missed the post when I stated irixith's name and you wrote reread?

You can "read" it without really reading it. You apparently did again since you failed to offer an answer to the question.

And at that I am done. You are just going to continue to be condescending so there is no more point in continuing this with you.