Arcade Ports released for both Sega Saturn and PSX

[Carlo Olivar]

Hi!

Using JP Saturn, I found that both the Saturn versions of Marvel Super Heroes (MSH) and Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo (SSF2T) are superior to the PSX versions. I'm based in the Philippines, so JP Sega Saturns are more common here.

For SSF2T, I found loading to be faster on the Saturn, while graphics and gameplay speed are more or less equal. I've also read elsewhere around the net that this is the common experience of most users.

Re: MSH, please note that using the 4MB cart will indeed slow it down or crash/freeze it, but using the 1MB cart -- the Saturn version loads and runs faster and with more frames of animation (but still not up to par with the CPS2 original). The 3MB mode of MSH (and of Cyberbots) refers to the Saturn's native 2MB RAM plus the 1MB cart. Hence, only the 1MB cart should be used.

Even without the 1MB cart, I find the Saturn version of MSH to be superior to the PSX version loading-wise and gameplay-speed-wise. Graphics-wise, the PSX's status bar appears to be more accurate to the arcade version, while the characters' and backgrounds' quality appear to be even.

I do concede that the PSX's audio to be superior, whether the Saturn version uses the 1MB cart or not.

Now, with the 1MB cart, there is still some slowdown with the Saturn version, but it is noticeably reduced.

On a side note, the PSX version, if I'm not mistaken was ported in-house by Capcom and its release was even delayed (see Wikipedia) probably due to optimizations. JP Saturn version came out first (almost 2-months gap), which was subcontracted to another JP developer (Tsuji Jimusho).

[marurun]

I have the JPN version of MSH and though there were some long loading times, I didn't notice any slowdown or delays.

[CD AGES]

For SSF2T, I found loading to be faster on the Saturn, while graphics and gameplay speed are more or less equal. I've also read elsewhere around the net that this is the common experience of most users.

Re: MSH, please note that using the 4MB cart will indeed slow it down or crash/freeze it, but using the 1MB cart -- the Saturn version loads and runs faster and with more frames of animation (but still not up to par with the CPS2 original). The 3MB mode of MSH (and of Cyberbots) refers to the Saturn's native 2MB RAM plus the 1MB cart. Hence, only the 1MB cart should be used.

Even without the 1MB cart, I find the Saturn version of MSH to be superior to the PSX version loading-wise and gameplay-speed-wise. Graphics-wise, the PSX's status bar appears to be more accurate to the arcade version, while the characters' and backgrounds' quality appear to be even.

Yes loading is just slightly faster on the Saturn, but the game def doesn't run as fast or smooth as the PSX version. I play the game on turbo 3 on the saturn and I get some VERY noticable slowdown throughout a fight (I think it may stem from bonus messages that appear on screen as a result of combos, reversals, first attack etc, idk). The speed on the PSX version in completely stable on same speed setting. It never let's up.

I'm aware of the whole 4meg 1meg cart issue. Aside from the instability that one gets from gthe 4MB carts (crashes), both carts cause the game to perform the same (they both provide the missing frames of animation and loading also gets worse).

I seriously need to get a capture card of some sort to put this matter to rest. The diference (while not incredibly significant) still falls in favor of the PSX version being better than the saturn counter parts.

[marurun]

I really would like to see some video footage. I don't play at the higher turbo speeds and I don't get any glitching with my 4 in 1 action replay, so I can't really provide much informed input.

[CD AGES]

Even without the 1MB cart, I find the Saturn version of MSH to be superior to the PSX version loading-wise and gameplay-speed-wise.

Do you own both SAT and PSX ports to compare, because my results are the exact opposite to what you're stating here.
Without the RAM cart, the SAT version loading time and speed are still wors than PSX version!

the PSX's status bar appears to be more accurate to the arcade version, while the characters' and backgrounds' quality appear to be even

That's because of the games picture being blown up. This is almost across the board with every Capcom 2D fighter on the Saturn. Some games like SFA2 will allow you to alter the screen size picture back to its original form though. With that said your statement is inaccurate. As a result on the picture being blown up on the Saturn, characters look larger. Furthermore, backgrounds are def not even! Backgrounds on the Saturn version sport more details that are removed or altered in the PSX version. I could get into more detail with the background comparisons (both negative and positive) for each respective version but i won't get into that now.

I do concede that the PSX's audio to be superior, whether the Saturn version uses the 1MB cart or not.

Well at least we can agree on that The Saturn version has alot of issues in this category.

Now, with the 1MB cart, there is still some slowdown with the Saturn version, but it is noticeably reduced.

I get the exact opposite! the game with any Ram cart used and enabled causes the game speed to be more unstable and MORE susceptible to slowdown then when the game is played without it.

On a side note, the PSX version, if I'm not mistaken was ported in-house by Capcom and its release was even delayed (see Wikipedia) probably due to optimizations. JP Saturn version came out first (almost 2-months gap), which was subcontracted to another JP developer (Tsuji Jimusho).

If any of this is accurate then it leads me further to believe that this may provided further credibility to my claims if the Saturn version was outsourced and the PSX version was done in-house and with a little longer development schedule, wouldn't you agree???

[CD AGES]

I really would like to see some video footage. I don't play at the higher turbo speeds and I don't get any glitching with my 4 in 1 action replay, so I can't really provide much informed input.

SSF2T at its highest speed (Turbo 3) is the standard in high level play and MSH needs to be played at "Turbo 2" to have the games speed match that of the arcade version as best as possible.

I've made a video showcasing both versions. They don't sport the best video quality but its the best i can do with what i have. I tried to mimic my play style as best i could with each version.

SATURN VERSION



PLAYSTATION VERSION

[marurun]

I don't have much familiarity with the arcade, so I can't offer insight on that end. It doesn't strike me so much that the Saturn version slows down in combos so much as the game seems to be a little slower overall. I don't see slowdown, but rather simply a slower speed. Some of the timing looks different and it looks deliberate, not a side-effect of anything. I'll have to look on-line at some arcade videos. If it is indeed different from the arcade in that respect I understand a tourney player picking the PS1 version over the Saturn. I think for a good many players, however, that won't amount to a severe issue.

I'm gonna go ahead and assert the longer loading times aren't a problem. The Saturn is loading more data. The Saturn has a bit more RAM than the PS1 anyway, and the 3 MB mode has additional memory that has to be filled. Shame about the sounds, though, but not unexpected. Sega inexplicably left out meaningful audio compression from their sound subsystem, something Sony didn't neglect. Capcom managed to address this in their 4 MB games, and even a couple of the earlier ones with the use of smart filtering, but it looks like MSH didn't get the treatment. Ah well. Not a deal-breaker for me.

Found a Spiderman TAS on Youtube. Yeah, the Saturn version is uniformly slower. The timing doesn't seem off related to the speed from what I can tell from the videos, but everything is slower all the way around. I don't remember this from my JPN version.

And in fact, it is apparently not a problem with the JPN version, only the US version. Here is a YouTube video of the JPN Saturn version with RAM cart and a discussion on the issue.



http://segasaturngroup.proboards.com/in ... 234&page=2

And in retrospect, the discussion in this thread proves little. Either way, I don't remember things chugging along in my JPN version and I've never played the US Saturn release. Until I can sit down with someone with the US version and compare the two in person, I'm not sure where to go with this.

[CD AGES]

I don't have much familiarity with the arcade

I'm not surprised. I feel as if almost anyone who says that the saturn port is a more accurate/better version of the 2 ports has never even played the arcade (or at least haven't in some time). I played the game in high level tournament settings for years and still play the arcade version or on mame every so often. The game is ingrained into my memory and reflexes. Sad but true

I'm gonna go ahead and assert the longer loading times aren't a problem. The Saturn is loading more data. The Saturn has a bit more RAM than the PS1 anyway, and the 3 MB mode has additional memory that has to be filled.

Umm, the Saturn ver still has slight longer load times than PSX even when the game is played with out a ram cart so Yes, its sort of an issue. You said it yourself, SAT has more RAM, so what's wit the load times?

Yeah, the Saturn version is uniformly slower. The timing doesn't seem off related to the speed from what I can tell from the videos

The issue here does not lie in a slower overall game. The issue lies in how unstable the game speed is on the saturn! One second the game speed runs beautifully as I launch my opponent with a 18hit air juggle in the center of the playfield, the next time I do a similar air combo juggle against the corner, the speed is compromised exponentially and as result completely ruins my timing on combos. Timing and proper execution go out the door. This a major issue considering the nature of this combo frenzied fighter. The playstation is no angel to slowdown, but it doesn't commit this crime as much as the saturn version. PSX version hits slowdown when the game gets graphically intensive (Proton Cannon, Unibeam, Photon Shot etc) the game speed will not let up for air corner combos, gem use (with some exceptions) and so on.

And in fact, it is apparently not a problem with the JPN version, only the US version. Here is a YouTube video of the JPN Saturn version with RAM cart and a discussion on the issue.

I actually already saw that video as well as that thread (as a matter of fact I read up on and did a lot of research over the net before I began this topic. With regards to the JPN version being the exception to the rule. . . Just by looking at the video once again shows me that this is untrue. For one the game speed overall does not increase with 3MB mode like many claim. It looks about the same as the US saturn version. There is also a lot of discussion on the net that conflicting comments to the statements of the JPN version being a better version over the US saturn release.

[marurun]

Umm, the Saturn ver still has slight longer load times than PSX even when the game is played with out a ram cart so Yes, its sort of an issue. You said it yourself, SAT has more RAM, so what's wit the load times?

The Saturn has a little more memory than the PS1 even without the RAM cart. The Saturn also has a reputation for not being a quick-loading system, although this problem seems worse on cross-platform titles and much less pronounced on Saturn exclusives. Probably has something to do with code portability, for lack of a better guess. As for more RAM, more RAM takes more time to fill, because more data has to be loaded from the CD. More RAM doesn't necessarily reduce loading times. To steal an example someone used recently on another forum, filling a 9 gallon bucket takes longer than filling a 5 gallon bucket if you use the same hose.

One second the game speed runs beautifully as I launch my opponent with a 18hit air juggle in the center of the playfield, the next time I do a similar air combo juggle against the corner, the speed is compromised exponentially and as result completely ruins my timing on combos. Timing and proper execution go out the door. This a major issue considering the nature of this combo frenzied fighter.

I can see how that could be a problem. It didn't seem as pronounced in the video of the JPN version. Again, I'd have to check my own copy. Everything did seem slower all the way around, as well, in your videos. Simply jumping seemed slower.

I actually already saw that video as well as that thread (as a matter of fact I read up on and did a lot of research over the net before I began this topic. With regards to the JPN version being the exception to the rule. . . Just by looking at the video once again shows me that this is untrue. For one the game speed overall does not increase with 3MB mode like many claim. It looks about the same as the US saturn version. There is also a lot of discussion on the net that conflicting comments to the statements of the JPN version being a better version over the US saturn release.

I don't see how more RAM would increase the game speed, unless the RAM starved version were doing graphics data decompression on the fly (something the Saturn would probably actually excel at if programmed properly). I certainly saw the problem in your US version videos, but the JPN version video didn't look so variable or hindered. Have you observed anything like this in other Capcom titles for the Saturn? I have quite a few, all JPN, and I've not had any complaints.

[wip3outguy7]

What about differences between the PSX and Saturn versions of Pocket Fighter?

I owned the PSX version many years ago and I own the Saturn version today.

The Saturn version utilizes the 4 meg ram cart, of course. It seems to load maybe a second quicker. It also appears that there is more animation overall, especially in the backgrounds.

Does anyone have both versions that they could compare? A video would be awesome.