Joss Whedon Does Star Wars: Good Idea?

[Gamerforlife]

I guess different people have different ideas of cultural penetration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffy_the_ ... ar_culture

That's a lot to read through right there

[dsheinem]

I guess different people have different ideas of cultural penetration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffy_the_ ... ar_culture

That's a lot to read through right there

That's a list of mentions the show has had in other pop culture. You are right, I don't consider that to be very important. Name dropping and making allusions to characters or plot lines for a gag doesn't say much about the show other than that it lends itself well to name dropping/parody/etc. It says little to nothing about the significance of the show's story, characters, or writing on how people think about the world or their place in it (or political issues, their personal relationships and those of others, their understanding of history and its relevance, etc.).

[BurningDoom]

I guess different people have different ideas of cultural penetration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffy_the_ ... ar_culture

That's a lot to read through right there

That's a list of mentions the show has had in other pop culture. You are right, I don't consider that to be very important. Name dropping and making allusions to characters or plot lines for a gag doesn't say much about the show other than that it lends itself well to name dropping/parody/etc. It says little to nothing about the significance of the show's story, characters, or writing on how people think about the world or their place in it (or political issues, their personal relationships and those of others, their understanding of history and its relevance, etc.).

Neither does I Love Lucy, but it's still a part of the modern culture. Buffy has that same status.

[dsheinem]

I guess different people have different ideas of cultural penetration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffy_the_ ... ar_culture

That's a lot to read through right there

That's a list of mentions the show has had in other pop culture. You are right, I don't consider that to be very important. Name dropping and making allusions to characters or plot lines for a gag doesn't say much about the show other than that it lends itself well to name dropping/parody/etc. It says little to nothing about the significance of the show's story, characters, or writing on how people think about the world or their place in it (or political issues, their personal relationships and those of others, their understanding of history and its relevance, etc.).

Neither does I Love Lucy, but it's still a part of the modern culture. Buffy has that same status.

Are you honestly comparing the cultural influence/importance of I Love Lucy and Buffy? I don't even...

I Love Lucy had a lot to say about gender roles, romantic relationships, immigration, marriage, and child rearing. The show's widespread popularity helps us understand something about how America understood these issues at the time of the show's airing. Lucy's influence on pop culture generally but especially on TV (and especially on the sitcom) is so much further reaching than all of Whedon's work put together.

[BurningDoom]

Are you honestly comparing the cultural influence/importance of I Love Lucy and Buffy? I don't even...

I Love Lucy had a lot to say about gender roles, romantic relationships, immigration, marriage, and child rearing. The show's widespread popularity helps us understand something about how America understood these issues at the time of the show's airing. Lucy's influence on pop culture generally but especially on TV (and especially on the sitcom) is so much further reaching than all of Whedon's work put together.

And you're in complete denial about Buffy's impact on culture if you think it had none.

[dsheinem]

And you're in complete denial about Buffy's impact on culture if you think it had none.

When did I ever say it had none?

This is what irritates me about Whedon fellationados: they think his work is extremely brilliant and the pinnacle of Western creative thought and that anyone who doesn't see that is naive for completely discounting him.

I like Whedon's stuff. It is marginally interesting from a scholarly perspective. He is not Alfred Hitchcock or Stanley Kubrick and Buffy is not I Love fucking Lucy.

[BurningDoom]

I never said they were the same. I said that I Love Lucy never, and I quote:

how people think about the world or their place in it (or political issues, their personal relationships and those of others, their understanding of history and its relevance, etc.).

It was simply an entertaining show that made people laugh. Yet it had a cultural significance. Buffy was entertaining, but entertaining enough that it had a cultural impact.

[Xeogred]

Cultural penetration.

[dsheinem]

I Love Lucy...was simply an entertaining show that made people laugh.

Ah, so comedy has no ideological entailments? I Love Lucy was created in a vacuum free of cultural belief, put out into a world where it can't have any effect on what people think is normal, acceptable, right, wrong, etc.? You really don't think the show in any way shaped how people who watched it thought about gender roles, romantic relationships, immigration, marriage, and/or child rearing? If you really don't think any of those things are part of politics, relationships, etc. - well then I don't think we can really continue this conversation.

[dsheinem]

Cultural penetration.