Joss Whedon Does Star Wars: Good Idea?

[Gamerforlife]

The thing about Whedon, he's a geek. That makes him good for any comic book or Sci Fi project because he is absorbed within that culture. He knows what to do with these properties from a fan's perspective.

Doesn't hurt that he has years of experience working in comics, movies, TV and on the web either. Guy's multi-talented

[dsheinem]

but really, anyone who wants to know why Whedon rocks can find some perspective here:

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/special/se ... ss-whedon/

there's a reason why there are books and college discussions devoted to this guy

Oh, please. I think I just threw up a little. I read this: http://www.popmatters.com/pm/feature/13 ... ss-whedon/

Lest one try to marginalize [Buffy] by assigning it “Cult TV” status, one should also keep in mind that Buffy remains the most intensely studied television series by television critics and scholars in the history of television. Unlike many other series targeted by TV scholars, such as the shows making up theStar Trek franchise, studies of Buffy are almost entirely textual analyses of the show’s content and rarely tangential studies of the show’s fandom. People remain primarily concerned with what Buffy, Angel, Firefly, and Dollhouse have to say about culture almost to the complete exclusion of questions about who watches these shows or why.

As someone who is a media scholar professionally, this is total bollocks for several reasons.

For one, even if the math is accurate and there is more written about Buffy or Whedon's work in general compared to past TV shows, I can tell you that a very small fraction of it is actually important scholarship that is published in well-regarded academic journals or through esteemed presses. There might be a market for this stuff simply becasue Whedon fans fancy themselves intellectuals, but very few actual intellectuals with a training in studying media take his stuff any more seriously than it needs to be taken. In other words, quantity or popularity of scholarship about Whedon =/= quality of scholarship about Whedon.

For another thing, plenty of college discussion focuses on popular culture. I think this is great - we certainly derive some of our world views/beliefs from pop culture, so it deserves to be studied and discussed. This discussion often includes recent popular/cult TV (like Buffy and Firefly), but that's often just becasue current students are familiar with it and can relate. Whedon's work was timely (by happy accident) in that the run of Buffy coincided with an increase in college coursework that focused on cultural criticism of TV/media. So yes, there was a time in college classrooms where there was a lot of discussion about the show to emphasize certain theoretical principles/critical perspectives that apply to that genre of TV and it was a convenient, timely example. Today, my students would look at me strange if I discussed Buffy - but I can discuss Lost, Game of Thrones, or some other more recent show from a similar genre and achieve the same point that used to be made with discussing Whedon's work. If I ever want to talk about historical examples of TV shows to make points, I will cite shows that had much wider cultural importance and significance (e.g. MASH, Roots, Star Trek, Lucy, The Jeffersons, Survivor, Will and Grace, Seinfeld, Friends, NYPD Blue, the Sopranos, etc.) that the students should actually know something about becasue of their popularity or the cultural conversations surrounding them. I sure as hell won't say much about Buffy.

These days, the most interesting thing from a critical perspective about Whedon's work IS the fan community that rallies around it.

[Ack]

Wait, wait, wait...Will and Grace? Seriously? People actually watched that show?

[dsheinem]

Wait, wait, wait...Will and Grace? Seriously? People actually watched that show?

They did, and it was a fairly significant show for featuring so many LGBT characters (with and without ridiculous stereotypes) at a time where doing so was still considered risque by many. Most importantly, it caused a lot of public debate/discussion, was cited frequently by both gay rights and anti-gay groups, etc. Buffy may have had good writing, but it didn't have the cultural impact of something like Will and Grace.

[Ack]

Ah, I understand. I knew it was very important for the representation of the LGBT community on television in a realistic way, but I didn't realize how much attention it had garnered.

The more you know.

[Stark]

The more you know.

Ha! I see what you did there.

[Luke]

Friends was culturally significant? I guess maybe it made a new generation of people who weren't afraid to eat cheesecake off a floor.

It is interesting how this thread is about fanboy fan-fiction. It's fan-tastic.

[Gamerforlife]

Friends was culturally significant? I guess maybe it made a new generation of people who weren't afraid to eat cheesecake off a floor.

It is interesting how this thread is about fanboy fan-fiction. It's fan-tastic.

Yeah, some of those shows are questionable. I'd actually consider Buffy more culturally significant than Will and Grace. Willow's sexual journey was a rather big talking point of the show and her relationship with Tara got international attention as the first long term lesbian relationship on US TV. They were certainly portrayed as much more interesting and stronger gay characters than what other shows, including Will and Grace, were showing at the time.

Buffy actually gets a lot of air play on Logo, which is a cable channel aimed at the LGBT community.

Outside of the LGBT community, the show has had other significant cultural impacts, like heavily influencing Russel T Davis in his writing of the successful Doctor Who reboot in 2005, not to mention some of the very Whedony language used in Buffy penetrating pop culture.

[Gamerforlife]

I would also add that you bring up Buffy or Whedon's other works in any room full of successful TV writers and it'll spark a lot of praise and conversation as I often hear on the Nerdist Writer's Panel podcast, which has had a number of writers from a variety of TV shows, including MASH, Cheers, Frasier, The Simpsons, My So-Called Life, Law and Order: SVU, Lost(Damon Lindelof), X-Files, CSI, Breaking Bad, Friday Night Lights, Veronica Mars, Community, Castle, The Walking Dead and many others. They had writers from just about any TV show that matters on that podcast.

Frankly, the praise of other people who've been in the business is enough for me to think highly of Whedon's work and its cultural impact. No one else's opinions really have the same weight and importance as his own successful peers.

[dsheinem]

I'd actually consider Buffy more culturally significant than Will and Grace...They were certainly portrayed as much more interesting and stronger gay characters than what other shows, including Will and Grace, were showing at the time.

Ratings aren't everything, but here they aren't even close:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_%26_Grace#Ratings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffy_the_ ... S._ratings

I won't disagree that Buffy did some interesting things with its LGBT relationships, some of which was groundbreaking TV. BUT it didn't have anywhere near the penetration into cultural consciousness that something like Will and Grace did (even if the latter isn't near as good of a show, in my opinion). Whedon's relevance thus far is as a modern cult-fiction creator, not as a major influence on ideological beliefs amongst the general population. A good point of comparison would be someone like David Lynch (who I find much more inventive and interesting, incidentally), though Whedon's original work hasn't hit anywhere near that level of cultural penetration as of yet.

The praise of other people who've been in the business is enough for me to think highly of Whedon's work and its cultural impact. No one else's opinions really have the same weight and importance as his own peers.

That's a different argument than the one suggested by the previous post/link. I don't doubt that his work is well regarded by TV writers - he is, generally, an excellent writer. But he's not this end-all be-all amazing influence of all things important in the genres that he's written on or in the academic study of popular culture/popular TV.