Nice to see Yahtzee broaden his sights a little:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... -Webcomics
Zero Punctuation: Webcomics
I found this to be pretty entertaining, although I don't like how he knocked CAD's plot twist (that was the dead babies joke was referring to). Even though the twist was only put in because Tim Buckley doesn't know how to incorporate a kid into his comic (at least, that's my theory), I thought it was a good one as it shows that not only can Tim make us laugh, he can also make us depressed too.
I'm honestly surprised that people can become attached to comic characters enough to feel depressed over something that happens to them. How does that work when the artist's main goal is to make people laugh and then he decides to throw in some serious plot twist? Sounds laughably ridiculous.GSZX1337 wrote:I found this to be pretty entertaining, although I don't like how he knocked CAD's plot twist (that was the dead babies joke was referring to). Even though the twist was only put in because Tim Buckley doesn't know how to incorporate a kid into his comic (at least, that's my theory), I thought it was a good one as it shows that not only can Tim make us laugh, he can also make us depressed too.
http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20080623
This just makes me cringe.
I use the term "depressed" loosely. If you want to see some people get depressed over some characters, look at those high school shits that are in love with some bitch and then start reading Romeo and Juliet. "Oh, this sounds just like us." When they reach the end, they turn into a total wreck because the couple dies.Lodestar wrote:I'm honestly surprised that people can become attached to comic characters enough to feel depressed over something that happens to them.GSZX1337 wrote:I found this to be pretty entertaining, although I don't like how he knocked CAD's plot twist (that was the dead babies joke was referring to). Even though the twist was only put in because Tim Buckley doesn't know how to incorporate a kid into his comic (at least, that's my theory), I thought it was a good one as it shows that not only can Tim make us laugh, he can also make us depressed too.
C'mon, what the hell did you think Tim was going to make? Their baby died, of course there's going to be some comics where the characters attempt to deal with it. It's a fucking cop out, no need to lynch the guy for it.
Uh...WHAT?If you want to see some people get depressed over some characters, look at those high school shits that are in love with some bitch and then start reading Romeo and Juliet. "Oh, this sounds just like us." When they reach the end, they turn into a total wreck because the couple dies.
That seems entirely fabricated and I've never heard of anything like that ever happening. I'm also not even sure why you brought it up, seeing as we're talking about lame internet COMIC characters and not Shakespearian works...I shouldn't even have to explain why they're not comparable. I also seriously doubt that any relationship would turn disastrous after the two "high school shits" realize they just compared themselves to (fictitious) characters that would inevitably die...in a book.
Heh...guess this is the end...for us...
On another note, when were cop-outs EVER considered okay? Maybe forgivable, but never okay. This is prime example of something that people should keep reminding the author of, even several months after the initial outrage has settled down so that he (Tim) never forgets how unfathomably stupid the idea was. This has two benefits because, one, it's an excellent indication to other 'aspiring' web comic artists that are thinking of doing anything similar (it's not interesting!) and, two, there is a small chance that the artist may just retire from the scene completely after enduring the exorbitant amount of humiliation from the community. I'm personally in favor of the second.
Obviously, he has no talent as a writer if he couldn't work with an idea that he HIMSELF proposed and ultimately decided he couldn't carry through with (after deciding he would, which makes it even worse).
Plain and simple, CAD sucks. I took the liberty of checking out a few of the other comics from various different dates and the humor is unsurprisingly stale and unexciting. *Sniffle* Heh...
I went to Kenwood High school for my freshman, Sophomore, and (part of) Junior years. During the freshman year, much of the school was "Emo." Kids were walking around dressed in black, writing in journals, cutting themselves, writing poetry, and listening to Slipknot (mostly for that song "Wait and Bleed"). It seemed like every kid there was trying to fool the other kids into thinking they were a "tortured soul." I even fell into that trap (eventually, I got out). In my freshman English class, we read one of Shakespeare's works, "Romeo and Juliet." You don't need a crystal ball to predict that this is Emo gold. All the Emos were crying "I can't believe that it would end like that." I've seen many poems with Romeo and Juliet as inspiration. I've talked to a few of my (former) friends with girlfriends and some said that their relationships were similar to Romeo and Juliet's. After a few minutes of babbling, they tell me that they're afraid of what might happen later on. Looking back, I think that they're just trying to add to their Emo image. I don't really put too much thought into it because I believe that if they needed to lie to make themselves look good, they're only hurting themselves.Lodestar wrote:[
That seems entirely fabricated and I've never heard of anything like that ever happening.
This isn't the only time that everyone went Emo (myself, included). In the same class we were reading "The Odyssey." Towards the end of the story, Odysseus's dog dies after seeing his master for the first time in 20(?) years. The whole class (except the few "gangsters") hung their heads like they heard their family just died. hell, the teacher even had to say "C'mon, it's a dog, in a fictional story!"
Please explain to me how they're not comparable. They're both fictional stories, they both have characters that's two similarities. I never understood why Shakespeare's works a held on a pedestal. I've read a three of his stories and read an outline to one and they end similarly (excluding one, "The Merchant of Venice"). The main character(s) commit suicide. Virtually the same ending three times? that sounds pretty lazy to me. "The Merchant of Venice" had an ending that seemed a bit too... "convenient." You just happened to find some legal stipulation that prevents the main character from getting hurt? I don't know anything about Venice during the Renaissance, but shouldn't the villain have gone to a local lawyer to go over the contract to prevent this from happening? Shakespeare isn't that great.I'm also not even sure why you brought it up, seeing as we're talking about lame internet COMIC characters and not Shakespearean works...I shouldn't even have to explain why they're not comparable.
Honestly, I don't know how their relationships turned out since I never really kept up with the whole "He's dating her" thing. I just that they were really down.I also seriously doubt that any relationship would turn disastrous after the two "high school shits" realize they just compared themselves to (fictitious) characters that would inevitably die...in a book.
I guess I'm in the minority. I'm glad that the baby died. If the baby would have been a character in the series, the comics would be filled with crappy derivative "Life with a kid" jokes. By having the baby die, the comic will go to the wedding and will be right back on track.On another note, when were cop-outs EVER considered okay? Maybe forgivable, but never okay.
Everyone makes mistakes. Pantera thought that their Glam Rock albums were a mistake and look how they turned out. They created some form of "Thrashy Groove Metal*" that paved the way for Machine Head. Dimebag is one the most respected guitarists of all time. If you don't mind me asking, do you write, film, or create anything? (ie. a comic, a movie series, etc)Obviously, he has no talent as a writer if he couldn't work with an idea that he HIMSELF proposed and ultimately decided he couldn't carry through with (after deciding he would, which makes it even worse).
Well, I'm glad that you at least gave the series a fair chance.Plain and simple, CAD sucks. I took the liberty of checking out a few of the other comics from various different dates and the humor is unsurprisingly stale and unexciting. *Sniffle* Heh...
Well, since I'm the one that screwed up the thread, I'll attempt to fix it. I think it's funny that Yahtzee's review is mentioned in Ctrl-Alt-Del's Wiki.
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lordofduct
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Actually I find this heart warming. At least there is a school some where where kids are actually getting into the stories. Literature has moved people for millenias!This isn't the only time that everyone went Emo (myself, included). In the same class we were reading "The Odyssey." Towards the end of the story, Odysseus's dog dies after seeing his master for the first time in 20(?) years. The whole class (except the few "gangsters") hung their heads like they heard their family just died. hell, the teacher even had to say "C'mon, it's a dog, in a fictional story!"
Though I have to agree with Lodestar, comparing Homer or Shakespeare to a web comic is a bit... ermm... odd.
I don't know shit about Ctrl+alt+det, the 2 comics of his I read (one moz once sent me making fun of it, and this one linked here in this thread) it doesn't really seem all to enthralling. But hey, I can totally empathize with this Tim guy. Web comics for a lot of authors are like most art, and extension of themselves, or to better make an "online" analogy... very similar to a exagerated personal blog. The man's addition of this story to what might be considered a comedic medium isn't all too surprising, though the "comedic" genre can be easily contested due to the large abundance of dramatic comic series dating all the way back to before WWII.
BUT, one thing the author probably also came to suspect, just like anyone airing out their laundry on the internet, not everyone is going to sympathize with you and probably point fingers and laugh. I've posted my own writing on some websites as well, and whenever I got up turned noses and middle fingers I wasn't surprised or heart broken. You let 6.5 billion people read your life, I guarantee a lot of them are gonna call you a cry baby.
So yeah, this Tim guy probably saw that one coming. Yahtzee's satirical jab at the guys belly, although slightly tasteless, is expected. It isn't like Yahtzee was like "and this Tim guy, what a pansy airing his laundry out like that". He was so vague about it, I didn't know who the fuck he was talking about, the only reason I knew is you guys pointed it out!
Ok, now this on the other hand. As I already said, it's a little odd. Let me elaborate.Please explain to me how they're not comparable. They're both fictional stories, they both have characters that's two similarities. I never understood why Shakespeare's works a held on a pedestal. I've read a three of his stories and read an outline to one and they end similarly (excluding one, "The Merchant of Venice"). The main character(s) commit suicide. Virtually the same ending three times? that sounds pretty lazy to me. "The Merchant of Venice" had an ending that seemed a bit too... "convenient." You just happened to find some legal stipulation that prevents the main character from getting hurt? I don't know anything about Venice during the Renaissance, but shouldn't the villain have gone to a local lawyer to go over the contract to prevent this from happening? Shakespeare isn't that great.
I don't like Shakespeare, but there is something any literary critic understands is that Shakespeare started something. Your traveling back to a time where English literature wasn't considered much... at the turn of the 15th century Chaucer had just legitimized English literature as an artistic medium. His Canterbury Tales were the first of its kind and proved that English wasn't as "ugly" of a language as most other societies considered it during the time.
Fast forward to the late 16th century and in rides Shakespeare. Up until now we've been getting a few English authors here and there, but finally a man walks up to the plate and delivers literature on a very grand scale for England. And not only is he reinventing the dramatic stage, the love story, and comedy... but he also brings it en masse. No longer is this literature reserved for the rich. His play house was visited by rich AND poor. This is one of the first times in history impoverished, uneducated, illiterate peasants get to witness "drama". English literature as an art form has matured and been 100% legitimized. Shakespeare shaped the adolescence of English literature leading to some of the greatest story telling of "enlightened Europe".
For Engligh literature, Shakespeare laid the ground work for a basic plot line that has been reused over and over again by everyone. Even with every great new renaissance in literature all the way up to the most recent "post-modern" movement... his basic pattern has been carved in stone. And if you move away from written literature and go to Shakespeare PRIME area of expertise, the acted word, it hasn't changed. Every film, play, and tv show you watch is Shakespeare! When you want to act, you don't study Shakespeare because we say he good, you study Shakespeare because his works explain in the rawest form what it is to be an actor in this day and age!
Comparing Shakespeare to "Penny-Arcade" or "CAD" is ridiculous. The same goes for Homer, Homer is the birth of Western written Literature from the Greeks! Though widely considered not a single person and actually a collaborative recording of traditional oral poetry handed from generation to generation. Either way, not comparable!
You can't even compare it to Hemingway, yet another author I don't like, but he is the father of Post-Modern literature. With out the likes of him, James Joyce, F. Scott Fitzgerald, etc... we wouldn't have the stories we have today. Without them we wouldn't have Vonnegut, with out Vonnegut we wouldn't have Palahniuk.
And there you go, Palahniuk is an amazing author. He's considered one of the best of the current writers available to us by a lot of people. But I guarantee you he wouldn't dare compare himself to any of these later authors. He has been quoted to revere them as his inspirations. But we don't sit around and call him better then these others.
There is difference between being a good writer, and reinventing the form all together. It's like any artform, look back at some of the most famous artists, their main key to fame is that they began something NEW:
Picasso started cubism
Van Gogh pioneered Expressionism
Da Vinci notably the archetype of the Renaissance period
It's been almost 400 years and Shakespeare is still read by the masses."CAD" pioneered nothing as of yet and isn't read by the masses. That is why you don't compare him to Shakespeare.
my post count: 1688
John Bunyan died, the author of "The Pilgrim's Progress" one of English's many note worthy pieces of writing describing the life in New England at the birth of the new world.
excuse my plug there, it is an allusion to an old game I attempted at other forums and could hardly get members to join in on. Take your post count and describe some historical event that occurred that year. I think it is fun.
Is it also ridiculous to compare Classical music to Technical Death Metal?lordofduct wrote: Comparing Shakespeare to "Penny-Arcade" or "CAD" is ridiculous. The same goes for Homer, Homer is the birth of Western written Literature from the Greeks!
I haven't done it, yet, but I have seen discussions on the Metal Archives forums comparing the two. is it also ridiculous to compare Star Wars to mythology? I've seen a documentary where people (I'm guessing have degrees in Folklore and Mythology) compared Star Wars to "The Odyssey" and other stories, describing the roots and inspirations of Star Wars, etc. I believe the stories are comparable, just not the authors.Also, I (originally) wasn't comparing the stories or their respective authors, I was comparing my reaction to a character's misfortune to the reaction of some of my former schoolmates to another character's misfortune.