Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' wait.

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Key-Glyph
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Re: Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' w

Post by Key-Glyph »

^ applause to your post.

Note: I cover all spoilers in spoiler tags, so read on with confidence!

I have now seen the ending and had many of the same thoughts you did, ATARI800XLfan, and you said them better than I could. I will be extremely disappointed if BioWare permanently adopts the stance of "this is our artwork and you have no right telling us how to express ourselves" or "if you don't get it it's because you're not sophisticated enough to understand it," because the first one claims a purpose independent of the audience (which you note is impossible given the interactive nature of video games), and the second one is a knee-jerk cover for poor storytelling. The rest of the game was utterly brilliant, so they've proved what they're capable of. It's their own reputation of excellence that's motivating the mass dismissal of the finale's execution. What a bittersweet situation for them, I'm sure.

I mean, I understand that the people involved in creating this game are wounded by the backlash, and I sympathize with that. It is also undeniable that whiny fanbases full of in-fighting and insatiable demands do indeed exist. So while BioWare's position on the matter is not completely unwarranted as a producer of entertainment, I do think it's unwarranted in their particular circumstance.

Here's what I wrote earlier today in an e-mail after pawing through the internet and reading up on the "possible alternative interpretation" of the ending, which Xeogred had mentioned earlier in this thread:

"Regardless of whether or not they intended [the alternative interpretation], the finale was poorly communicated and thus failed. You don't [intentionally] pull an ending that flies over the heads of your whole audience and then claim that they're too stupid to understand the art of it. This was not a product put forth as an artistic expression crafted solely for the benefit of the creator that you, as an observer, either "got" or "didn't get." It was first and foremost supposed to be a rewarding experience for the players -- not an exclusionary clique ultimately inaccessible and incomprehensible to the average user."

I refuse to believe that the creative team is full of brilliant sinister overlords who deliberately hoodwinked us with a confusing conclusion just so they could chortle to themselves about the unenlightened peasantry. That is a legitimately unfair accusation, IMHO.

SPOILER TALK:
And I hate that articles on the internet are claiming the fans are upset at the lack of a "happy ending." Did these people even play this game? Because the conclusion of Mordin's story was one of the most beautiful and satisfying moments of the entire series, and I don't think any player is in disagreement over that. Honestly I was expecting Shepherd to fail. Out-and-out fail. And I was prepared for that! If it had been done elegantly, I would have accepted that Shepherd's nine lives were finally up. I was just looking for some cathartic closure, that's all -- and what I ended up with was not even knowing where some of my crew members were.
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MrPopo
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Re: Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' w

Post by MrPopo »

Honestly what I forsee is them expanding on the endings we have; we'll see more of the consequences of the ending that a lot of people are speculating about but have no real info.
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ATARI800XLfan
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Re: Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' w

Post by ATARI800XLfan »

Key-Glyph wrote:^ applause to your post.

Note: I cover all spoilers in spoiler tags, so read on with confidence!

I have now seen the ending and had many of the same thoughts you did, ATARI800XLfan, and you said them better than I could. I will be extremely disappointed if BioWare permanently adopts the stance of "this is our artwork and you have no right telling us how to express ourselves" or "if you don't get it it's because you're not sophisticated enough to understand it," because the first one claims a purpose independent of the audience (which you note is impossible given the interactive nature of video games), and the second one is a knee-jerk cover for poor storytelling. The rest of the game was utterly brilliant, so they've proved what they're capable of. It's their own reputation of excellence that's motivating the mass dismissal of the finale's execution. What a bittersweet situation for them, I'm sure.

I mean, I understand that the people involved in creating this game are wounded by the backlash, and I sympathize with that. It is also undeniable that whiny fanbases full of in-fighting and insatiable demands do indeed exist. So while BioWare's position on the matter is not completely unwarranted as a producer of entertainment, I do think it's unwarranted in their particular circumstance.

Here's what I wrote earlier today in an e-mail after pawing through the internet and reading up on the "possible alternative interpretation" of the ending, which Xeogred had mentioned earlier in this thread:

"Regardless of whether or not they intended [the alternative interpretation], the finale was poorly communicated and thus failed. You don't [intentionally] pull an ending that flies over the heads of your whole audience and then claim that they're too stupid to understand the art of it. This was not a product put forth as an artistic expression crafted solely for the benefit of the creator that you, as an observer, either "got" or "didn't get." It was first and foremost supposed to be a rewarding experience for the players -- not an exclusionary clique ultimately inaccessible and incomprehensible to the average user."

I refuse to believe that the creative team is full of brilliant sinister overlords who deliberately hoodwinked us with a confusing conclusion just so they could chortle to themselves about the unenlightened peasantry. That is a legitimately unfair accusation, IMHO.

SPOILER TALK:
And I hate that articles on the internet are claiming the fans are upset at the lack of a "happy ending." Did these people even play this game? Because the conclusion of Mordin's story was one of the most beautiful and satisfying moments of the entire series, and I don't think any player is in disagreement over that. Honestly I was expecting Shepherd to fail. Out-and-out fail. And I was prepared for that! If it had been done elegantly, I would have accepted that Shepherd's nine lives were finally up. I was just looking for some cathartic closure, that's all -- and what I ended up with was not even knowing where some of my crew members were.
Thanks, head over to the Bioware forums for more civil talk about the problems with the game. I find it funny how websites like to make us out a whiners or uncivil. Upon Talking with them they are some of the most civil fans I have seen. They even tried to stop the person from complaining to the FTC because they knew it was a bad idea. We are just people that are emotionally attached to a series that we were told and felt that we were making a difference in, that is was your story and character. I see no problem with people asking for what they were told they were going to get and that they made a difference in the game. Emailing them should hopefully get there attention, did you vote in the Poll I listed?


Bioware forum discussion, good but long(370 pages)
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic ... 084349/366
Last edited by ATARI800XLfan on Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
ATARI800XLfan
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Re: Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' w

Post by ATARI800XLfan »

MrPopo wrote:Honestly what I forsee is them expanding on the endings we have; we'll see more of the consequences of the ending that a lot of people are speculating about but have no real info.
which would make most people happy, we just want the closure and questions answered that we were told would be answered. Most fans knew it might not be a happy happy ending and we are fine with that, though I do not see why there can't be one.
Also though Bioware keeps on using the reasoning that the game received good scores from magazines and websites there is one problem, how many of those sites actually played till the end or have played the previous 2? The ending of Mass Effect 2 was so awesome, as was 99 percent of 3

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic ... x/10098213
what do you want Changed in the ending?
ATARI800XLfan
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Re: Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' w

Post by ATARI800XLfan »

Personally I would be happy with a epilogue that showed a bittersweet view of all we lost, but also at what we still had. (And if there are enough varient endings someone can get the star wars medal ceremony, but that's the point we wanted the endings to be divergent)
and not destroying certain modes of transportation.(maybe a Krogan team member as DLC?)
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Re: Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' w

Post by ATARI800XLfan »

bump.

spoiler,
fan made ending, pretty good.

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Re: Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' w

Post by MrPopo »

ATARI800XLfan wrote:Personally I would be happy with a epilogue that showed a bittersweet view of all we lost, but also at what we still had. (And if there are enough varient endings someone can get the star wars medal ceremony, but that's the point we wanted the endings to be divergent)
and not destroying certain modes of transportation.(maybe a Krogan team member as DLC?)
The narrative is too strong to have wildly divergent endings. Just like how the first two games had the same ending no matter what you did, with just some small details changed.
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Re: Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' w

Post by Xeogred »

Wasn't an issue for Fallout New Vegas.
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Re: Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' w

Post by MrPopo »

Xeogred wrote:Wasn't an issue for Fallout New Vegas.
New Vegas is a sandbox game; they're defined by choice and openness. ME3 is your more standard RPG.
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Re: Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' w

Post by Xeogred »

Oh wow, your post above makes sense now and I agree with it... I was pretty tired and hungover last night. :lol: :roll:
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