Still not convinced of the iOS as a handheld?

[Cronozilla]

A NEW MEMBER MEGA-POST APPROACHES! (spoilered for size)

The Smartphone market is weird. There's all these proponents out there claiming that handhelds, nay, all of dedicated gaming devices, are on their last legs ... but the truth of the matter is, no one is really creating a nice environment for games.

The advantage of dedicated gaming devices (which is the argument people have been using in console vs pc threads on the internet since the dawn of time) is they're a common platform. Even with iOS, you have something like 9 different hardware configurations possible. This doesn't even consider the non-apple space of Linux and Android devices in which there are, literally, thousands of different hardware platforms for.

So you run into the issue of, what's the baseline? It's the same issue developers argue they have on PC (even though the PC Gaming Alliance could just man-up and choose some specs.) The issue is ... how do you convey to a consumer that their device will run these games. With a console it's implicit!

Of course the solution is some sort of gaming framework ... not unlike Sony's PlayStation Suite (which is a free to use API on Android. It's also what runs on the Vita) which gives a base interaction so games know what to expect. "If the platform can use PSS, then it can run my game", sort of logic. (Currently, you have to build and test on every single device you'd want to release it for)

So, that'd need to happen first ... but if PC is any indication ... if you can't even get that on a 100% open platform ... good luck getting every Tom Dick and Harry android device manufacturer and Apple too to agree on anything. (You could just say, well just apple then, but in reality, they'll never do it because they want you to buy a new one next year)

Let's just imagine that happened, there's a common software base for all mobile games, you have a device with that "Mobile Alliance" or whatever sticker on it, you know it can run compliant games. Then you have to deal with the issue of ... well .. touch screens aren't very nice for traditional games. Your hands are in the way, and it can be somewhat unresponsive at times. A controller has very simplistic "if button goes down, there's a signal" sort of design. A capacitance touch screen requires all sorts of position data which adds almost miliseconds to the amount of time for input to be processed.

So, the solution would be, of course, make a controller! I imagine this will happen, and become more common, but as it stands, phones are wildly different shapes ... if there were chassis commonalities, like in cars, to where you could say, ok this phone is in class a, this phone is class b, etc. Then you could design a device that would work well with most all devices. (As long as apple could go long enough without suing someone else because their box device is also a box)

So, then lets say, OK, there's the software platform there's the controller and let's just say more complex games will come (there's some there now) ... there's still fundamental problems with using a device like your phone as a PRIMARY gaming machine ... namely ... it's your phone! By combining the devices you've now more than doubled the work the phone would need to do. This would create a significantly more expensive device. You wouldn't want situations where you're playing a game and it's completely maxed out the resources of the device, and as a result you don't receive an important phone call. Therefore you'd need something like a dual system setup inside the phone (a CPU core(s) and ram JUST for phone things). This would only increase the number of chips you have in the phone ... and to be honest, batteries just can't keep up with that.

Cell signal coverage ALREADY drains phones dead in a matter of a couple days, purely from standby time. If the thing also had to service BlueTooth, WiFi/3/4G, 3D acceleration, High Quality audio playback ... you're talking about something that's only going to last 2-3 hours. You'd fully charge the thing ... take it with you, it'll be 60% dead by the time you get to work. 3/4 of the way through your day it'll be beeping at you to charge it. And then it'd be dead before you got home.

It just doesn't make sense to want to combine these fundamentally different devices together. It works great when you're talking about quick 10 minute game sessions and stuff that's fairly lax on GPUs ... but, when you talk replacing current console and handheld models ... it just doesn't add up. Not saying no one will try it ... I just don't see how it could be the next big thing with these massive limitations. It could only supplement ... not replace.

[RCBH928]

Guys you are doing pricing the wrong way. 3DS is for $130, but thats a system that can ONLY play games. iPods at $300 and iPads at $500 , can play games too. But it edits movies, photoshop images, browse the internet, IM, streams media, plays video+audio,..etc

Comparing 3DS price to iPod/ipad price is like comparing SNES to a PC price in '95, the PC can do just a whole lot more.

The other thing is that, a ton of people own an iOS. There is like only 150m DS in the world, and its been on sale since 2004(7+years). I believe there are 250m+ iOS devices sold since the iPhone first launched in 2007(5 years). Do you see the potential here?

I as an owner of an iPad, Do not think I will go and buy DS or Vita at ALL. I already own this device that plays a ton of games, why should I get an ADDITIONAL device that plays ONLY games?

Now, this is not an iOS vs handheld issue. This is a multipurpose device vs dedicated handhelds. As I mentioned before if Sony or Nintendo or even Google released an iOS like product with button it could compete in that area. But as long as they keep doing dedicated devices I think their sales will continue to dwindle.
Some one mentioned the Xperia, and thats a step towards the right direction.

There is a huge myth about game quality on iOS. I know what you mean by the 10 minute games then you move on with your life, I can say the same thing about junk ware. Truth is that there are amazing games on iOS that are all time classics like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Sonic, Doom, Monkey Island, Broken Sword, many more. You cant say these games are low quality 10min games.

If I have a Vita, I will not go out to buy an iPad to play games. But I have an iPad, and it plays a ton of great games , why should I go out and get a Vita or DS? battery life on an iPad is like 7-10hrs dunno how the DS compares to that.

We are not talking about the year 2012 here, we are talking about how it will be in the future, in 2015 when 3 more updated version of iPads are out. I bet it will be as powerful as the current vita and maybe 3rd party controller support

[Opa Opa]

I'm still not convinced as any iDevice as a dedicated gaming handheld. They're generally marketed as a phone with extra features or tablet with extra features.

Also, did anyone mention the added fees of actually using these devices? For an iphone for example, you have the basic plan, the data plan, messaging plan... plus the cost of the device itself. The iphone isn't a game console. You have to keep paying to use it at its fullest potential.

The 3DS and Vita just have 2 costs: The unit and the games. That's it. (Unless you use the 3G plan or PS+ but those are not necessary).

[GameMasterGuy]

We're not just talking about the iPhone you know. All I've payed for my iPod so far is the unit itself, a comfy case, screen protectors, and a plunger stand for watching Netflix. Not only have I not had to pay for monthly fees, but there's been enough free apps so that I haven't had to pay for any downloads, either.

[Opa Opa]

We're not just talking about the iPhone you know. All I've payed for my iPod so far is the unit itself, a comfy case, screen protectors, and a plunger stand for watching Netflix. Not only have I not had to pay for monthly fees, but there's been enough free apps so that I haven't had to pay for any downloads, either.

You know I did think of the ipods but I'm really just talking about what I have experience with. I know people with iphones/pads. Never used an ipod though.

I guess the ipod would be a cheaper alternative... but still not a dedicated gaming device. At least I don't feel like it is.

[GameMasterGuy]

While it is filled with "casual" games, not only are there more hardcore ones (RPGs such as FF3 work notably well), but the casual ones can get tough, and typically have competitive leaderboards that should more than please the high-score hunting retro crowd. Sure, any 10-year old might be able to beat X level in Angry Birds, but can they do it with a single red bird and in such a way that all but a few blocks get destroyed? Didn't think so.

[RCBH928]

guys, there are more to iOS games than angry birds. Casual games exist, like they exist for all consoles. But there are those more dedicated difficult ones. Last I checked there was a GTA III for iOS!!!
Don't tell me GTA III is not good enough. Whats more important, is not that iOS can play GTA II, but if iOS can run GTA III then there are about infinite possibilities of games.

[ejamer]

guys, there are more to iOS games than angry birds. Casual games exist, like they exist for all consoles. But there are those more dedicated difficult ones. Last I checked there was a GTA III for iOS!!!
Don't tell me GTA III is not good enough. Whats more important, is not that iOS can play GTA II, but if iOS can run GTA III then there are about infinite possibilities of games.

The first half of this statement is a poor argument though. iOS can play Street Fighter and GTA and many other games... but the platform is a poor fit for those games because they weren't designed for touch controls.

The second half (that there is infinite possibility) is still true... assuming developers feel confident enough they can earn profit by creating major releases for iOS. So far I've seen more people release quick-and-cheap games because there is a much lower risk involved when the iOS market is so crowded and the majority of people refuse to pay more than $1 for software anyway.

[RCBH928]

guys, there are more to iOS games than angry birds. Casual games exist, like they exist for all consoles. But there are those more dedicated difficult ones. Last I checked there was a GTA III for iOS!!!
Don't tell me GTA III is not good enough. Whats more important, is not that iOS can play GTA II, but if iOS can run GTA III then there are about infinite possibilities of games.

The first half of this statement is a poor argument though. iOS can play Street Fighter and GTA and many other games... but the platform is a poor fit for those games because they weren't designed for touch controls.

The second half (that there is infinite possibility) is still true... assuming developers feel confident enough they can earn profit by creating major releases for iOS. So far I've seen more people release quick-and-cheap games because there is a much lower risk involved when the iOS market is so crowded and the majority of people refuse to pay more than $1 for software anyway.

While what you say is true, I was trying to point out that iOS can play games of that high grade as GTA III, meaning as good as or better game CAN be developed(and maybe there are games like that now I just dunno about them), so the possibility is there just needs some one to start working on it.

I am one of those $1 guys, but after sometime I realized that $1 games are also 20min games which is far enough and I don't want to go through another angry birds/castle defending game just to make a quick buck, I think the iOS community, like me, are starting to realize that higher quality games are for higher prices.

I have been following the Apps market for sometime now, and since I got my iPad around 1.5 years ago, there were just too many $1 apps. now I see more of the $5-$10 apps.
What I think , psychologically , affecting the sales is that an app would cost like $15, then in a month or 2 the developer will make a special offer for a week celebrating "something" where the app/game would be for $1 !
I think, I am not sure, I got Broken Sword for FREE!!! on one of those offers! and its like $10-15 games.

So while we do benefit, it hurts the whole ecosystem of the apps market, when people keep thinking I can get it for a better price!

it happens like every 3 months, honest. I think Apple should have a rule that they can't change the price so often, maybe once a year.

[fielding]

Simple games with easy controls like puzzle games etc are perfect for iOS, but anything that requires precise movement is a total mess.

I still dont understand why Apple hasn't made an official bluetooth controller with actual buttons. Wouldnt work on all games but would make some of them a hell of a lot easier to control.