Presidential Address, March 6th 2012

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Re: Presidential Address, March 6th 2012

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Jimmy Yakapucci wrote: With respect to the Israel/Palestine situation, creating a Palestinian homeland right next to Israel would be like creating a homeland for the KKK in Africa. It doesn't seem right to create a country who has in its national charter to seek the eradication of the Jews and Israel right next to Israel.
Insane arguement. Firstly, the Palestinians lived in the area first and the fury they may feel towards Israel stems directly from the consequences of Isreal's colinisation of the land. It is in both nation's interest to comprimise in order to live together in peace. The onus cannot be simply on the Palestinians to roll over and accept subjugation because of the bad blood which exists.

There are obviously extremist elements within the Palestinian community who deny the right of Israel to exist, but that is exactly the same as the extremist Jews who see Palestinians as lesser human beings and would gladly 'settle' them out of existence.

From my understanding, the majority of Palestinian people just want to live in peace & be part of an actual state, as opposed to a glorified concentration camp (have you seen the lists of goods which are banned from being brought into the occupied territories?). You say " It doesn't seem right to create a country who has in its national charter to seek the eradication of the Jews and Israel right next to Israel." but what would that leave you with? Extermination? Perhaps we could establish them a homeland on another continent? Seems to be a pretty tidy arrangement, really.

Seriously, That is where the Palestinian people live and have lived, and the only options are - a 2 state solutions on the borders which have been agreed upon by every country in the world apart from Israel and the US; or an integration of Palestinian people into Isreal with the same rights for all citizens regardless of ethnicity/religion. Anything else will simply maintain the hatred and violence.

(IMO)

Also, the arguement that Iran would nuke Israel is insane too. Someone in the thread said that it is Israel's treatment of the Palestinians which would lead them to nuke Israel. Think about that. If they are fighting for justice for the Palestinians then why in the hell would they go dropping a nuclear bomb right on their damn doorstep?? Not to mention that Israel, the only actual nuclear power in the Middle East at the moment, has enough firepower to incinerate Iran within moments at the hint of nuclear provocation. The Iranian gov. might be crazy, but even they aren't crazy enough to deliberately trigger a nuclear holocaust which would decimate the entire region.

To be clear, I don't believe that Iran, or any nation for that matter, should be in possession of nuclear weapons. I also believe that they should, obviously, let the inspectors in if they have nothing to hide. But the notion that they are itching to nuke anybody holds no water for me. It seems that Obama's strategy will be to cripple Iran with sanctions and then dangle a few carrots to make them play ball. Don't know if it will work, but I hope that America/Americans can see that rolling into the M.E. with smart bombs blazing (again) is a really really really really fucked idea.
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Luke
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Re: Presidential Address, March 6th 2012

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god wrote: To be clear, I don't believe that Iran, or any nation for that matter, should be in possession of nuclear weapons. I also believe that they should, obviously, let the inspectors in if they have nothing to hide. But the notion that they are itching to nuke anybody holds no water for me. It seems that Obama's strategy will be to cripple Iran with sanctions and then dangle a few carrots to make them play ball. Don't know if it will work, but I hope that America/Americans can see that rolling into the M.E. with smart bombs blazing (again) is a really really really really fucked idea.
I can get behind all of this.
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Re: Presidential Address, March 6th 2012

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Luke wrote:
god wrote: To be clear, I don't believe that Iran, or any nation for that matter, should be in possession of nuclear weapons. I also believe that they should, obviously, let the inspectors in if they have nothing to hide. But the notion that they are itching to nuke anybody holds no water for me. It seems that Obama's strategy will be to cripple Iran with sanctions and then dangle a few carrots to make them play ball. Don't know if it will work, but I hope that America/Americans can see that rolling into the M.E. with smart bombs blazing (again) is a really really really really fucked idea.
I can get behind all of this.

Then why the suggested vote of "no confidence"? That ^ view is, essentially, the current policy. As far as I know, Obama has never said "hey, I'll trust Iran if they say they have no nukes" as you suggest (proof?), but he has supported sanctions and requested proof/access to inspectors. in fact, he's scarily been a bit more incendiary than that of late: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012 ... rack-obama

As always, Jon Stewart is pretty dead on concerning WHY this issue is such a "big deal" right now: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-m ... f-warcraft
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Re: Presidential Address, March 6th 2012

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Luke wrote:
Jimmy Yakapucci wrote: Once again, what gives the US the right to decide who does and does not have nuclear weapons.
It's not only the US, it's the UN and the NPT agreement. The US is just the enforcer.

The US is basically the Bob Probert of the UN.
Like I said, "I have mine, and have used them. But you can't have any because you can't be trusted with them." If they were sincere with the whole thing, they would get rid of all of them rather than just stopping the spread.

Also, the problem with being Bob Probert is that he took a lot of what he gave. Not an enviable position.
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Re: Presidential Address, March 6th 2012

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The whole point of an active nuclear stockpile is to deter others from stockpiling or using their own (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_as ... estruction). Human development is not yet to the point where a group of people interested in nuking another group of people could not come into power.
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Re: Presidential Address, March 6th 2012

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Supposedly people outside USA can't watch those videos on The Daily Show site. Can anyone think of how I might get around that?
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Re: Presidential Address, March 6th 2012

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god wrote:Supposedly people outside USA can't watch those videos on The Daily Show site. Can anyone think of how I might get around that?
move to the US! :lol:
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Re: Presidential Address, March 6th 2012

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Haha, thanks but I'm good.

Though even I could probably buy a house there, and live like royalty with my Aussie dollars.
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Re: Presidential Address, March 6th 2012

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dsheinem wrote: Then why the suggested vote of "no confidence"? That ^ view is, essentially, the current policy. As far as I know, Obama has never said "hey, I'll trust Iran if they say they have no nukes" as you suggest (proof?), but he has supported sanctions and requested proof/access to inspectors. in fact, he's scarily been a bit more incendiary than that of late: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012 ... rack-obama

As always, Jon Stewart is pretty dead on concerning WHY this issue is such a "big deal" right now: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-m ... f-warcraft
There are many other reasons I would vote "no confidence" on both parties. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy all the ridiculousness of both parties, but there isn't a true leader in the bunch.

Proofage that you seeketh:
Obama's press conference. It's right around the 19 to 22 minute mark where our President says:

"To resolve this issue will require Iran to come to the table, and discuss in a clear and forthright way how to prove to the international community that the intentions of their nuclear program are peaceful. They know how to do that. Ah, This-is is not ah a mystery".

The message Obama uses is clear. It's simple, "tell us you are not building nukes, and it is a-okay".

Hard to argue with Stewart's writers though.
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Re: Presidential Address, March 6th 2012

Post by Luke »

god wrote:Supposedly people outside USA can't watch those videos on The Daily Show site. Can anyone think of how I might get around that?
I have two annoying friends who moved to Australia, or "Oz" as they call it (I told you they were annoying). I'll see if they have any Daily Show viewing tips for ya.
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