Console wars, What did the numbers go?

[Nintendork666]

I don't understand the accusation of GC having 'ugly ports'.

To the best of my knowledge, power-wise, the console was pretty much on par with the XBOX. If anything, the PS2 versions of multi-plat games were often the least visually impressive. The only thing GC owners were ever really robbed of, were online capabilities.

[ringwaldhaze]

Except it does, because the PS2 was loaded with the casual shovel ware. Just because you feel the GameCube is more family friendly and casual doesn't mean it actually was. The Wii was marketed as a games system for the casuals and everybody else. There's no argument about that, and I have no doubt that there are plenty of new comers playing the Wii. The PS2 was similarly sold into many homes, but in a different fashion. When it was released, it was the cheapest and most fully functional DVD player on the market, which certainly expanded it's usefulness and desirability in other homes.

You only have to flick through the used PS2 section in a store to see all the licensed Nickelodeon and "shovelware" games that so many people associate with the Wii. Those types of games just flock to the system with the biggest install base.

[pakopako]

To the best of my knowledge, power-wise, the console was pretty much on par with the XBOX. If anything, the PS2 versions of multi-plat games were often the least visually impressive. The only thing GC owners were ever really robbed of, were online capabilities.

Computing-wise, the GC and XBOX were head-and-shoulders above the PS2 and DC. (Speaking ot the DC vs PS2, the PS2 was also the cheapest stand-alone DVD-player at the time, a big draw for families who weren't PC-savvy.)

The GC did have plenty of limitations though. It had a 56k/LAN-adapter, but with perhaps only half-a-dozen games that used them, half as a crossover connector and the other half that would actually go online. (Two of them were different versions of PSO.)

The GC was saddled with limited space for uncompressed audio, a one-less-button controller, and a general "last to the party" stigma. The first and last were the biggies. I'm pretty sure GTA3 would have made it onto the GC had they larger discs or compressed the audio (censors be damned, they let an uncensored BMX XXX on the "kiddie-cube"). One of the later multi-console titles, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was produced, but canned for the GC because it wouldn't be profitable enough to port it because not enough GC units were out (compared to the PS2; the XBOX was probably just cheap/easy to port for.)

[RCBH928]

You guys think every one is as knowledgable as you are when it comes to computers"Easy, just -swap-GPU then swap-CPU" when people do not know whats a CPU or a GPU. You will have to understand that buying a game off the shelf and inserting it in a console is much easier than launching a PC with an OS then launch the software within the OS to play the games. Also you have to configure the the joystick. You have to understand that most people out there just want to play games they are unlike you researching and collecting games for the past(at least)5 years.

You must understand that most people out there don't even know they have to update Windows, and the only reason they update their consoles is that it pops up in their face "THERE IS NEW BETTER UPDATE FOR THIS CONSOLE, DO YOU WANT TO UPDATE ? CLICK"

You will be amazed as how many people have hard time dealing with PCs. If you don't believe me, you can go see "average" people using a pc. Things that are common sense to me is pretty difficult to other people.

PCs have all this : Update OS, Upgrade OS, download patches, update games, directX, CPU, GPU, malware, viruses...you get the idea. You don't have to deal with such stuff on a console.
During the lifetime of ps2 there were 3 Windows VERSIONS used(98-ME,xp,vista) and cpu was 800-1000mhz up to something like core 2 dou 2.2GHZ by 2007. You will just have to agree that dealing with a console is much easier and smoother for the average consumer than a pc.


I am not saying PC sucks. I am saying that most people would rather go the easy way. If you finding dealing with a PC is easy as making your morning coffee then be my guest, but PC gaming is not for the average consumer(at least not after 2 years after purchase).

As for ps2 users switching to Wiis , All the people I know with ps2 didn't even care to get a 360 everyone got ps3. Maybe its a different story in the US, while I know shovel ware existed for ps2, last I check Sony entered the market by being the anti-Nintendo by targeting adults hence the games like Resident Evil and Twisted Metal on psx on the opposite of Mario 64 and Mario Kart, and after Sony raped Nintendo ins consoles sales I highly doubt they changed their marketing strategy to target families, the Nintendo strategy.

I won't argue that some people bought the ps2(late 2000) as a dvd player, but I bet you they are the tiny percentage of the 140 million ps2 buyers. I have an EMPIRE magazine here from April,2004(4 years after ps2 launch) that says "VHS-RIP". That means that DVD has been at least the standard for 2 years-2002, that means by 2002 most people had dvd players. So people who bought ps2 for the dvd player only bought it for 2 years out of the total 7 years of ps2 lifetime. How many of those are part of the 140m users.

[Ivo]

I think a lot of people went handheld, web-game (like Zynga games on facebook :/) and mobile phone / tablet only.

This can be a bit worrying for people that like a different sort of game with other type of production values, but hopefully there will always be a market for that type of experience. Frankly right now there are probably too many games of the "hihg-production values" type being made (I certainly can't play them all) that I'm not that worried if it diminishes drastically to favor iPhone games etc. As long as the lower number of "AAA" is not just yearly releases of Call of Duty and sports games

Ivo.

[Erik_Twice]

You guys think every one is as knowledgable as you are when it comes to computers"Easy, just -swap-GPU then swap-CPU" when people do not know whats a CPU or a GPU.

No, I don't think everyone is as knwledgable as me but I think anyone can find how to replace their GPU in two minutes. It's not rocket science.

You will have to understand that buying a game off the shelf and inserting it in a console is much easier than launching a PC with an OS then launch the software within the OS to play the games.

Both run exactly the same. In both cases you have to turn on your console, introduce the CD and click play. And there's not a huge difference between clicking in "Game.exe" and clicking in internet explorer to open facebook.

During the lifetime of ps2 there were 3 Windows VERSIONS used(98-ME,xp,vista) and cpu was 800-1000mhz up to something like core 2 dou 2.2GHZ by 2007. You will just have to agree that dealing with a console is much easier and smoother for the average consumer than a pc.

The lifetime of the PS2 is twice of any other console, it doesn't make a good example. Computer cycles are slighty longer than console cycles and have slowed down considerably. I still use XP btw.

Dealing with a console is barely easier than using a PC. Any person capable of plugging the cables of a console or pc will be more than able to game in a pc. Dare, I say, if you are not a moron and care the tiniest bit, you will have no problems. And the average person is not that stupid, really.

[ejamer]

Why does this discussion feel like it's going nowhere...

VGChartz numbers are BS, but PS3 is commonly accepted as third worldwide in console sales, while Wii is clearly in first place for this generation. You repeatedly say that you can't believe what people are saying, so give an opinion instead of just asking the same questions over and over. Exactly where did all the PS2 gamers go?

[sabrage]

kingmohd sounds like the harbinger of the apocalypse, the way he's describing everything that's wrong with the world.

[isiolia]

You will be amazed as how many people have hard time dealing with PCs. If you don't believe me, you can go see "average" people using a pc. Things that are common sense to me is pretty difficult to other people.

Working in IT, I know full well how many people have a hard time using a PC.

I also have the opinion that a lot of it is interest-based. Most of it is not truly hard, and not beyond the grasp of your average person if they cared to learn. Many just don't.


In general, in addition to things like phone/tablet games n' the like, I'd consider other outside factors.

First, the rise of MMO gaming. WoW was nothing new, but it took things to a completely new level in terms of popularity. It came out in 2004, in time to hook PS2 owners on non-console gaming before the next generation hit.

Second, maybe consider where a lot of the NES/SNES generation were at in life then. As an example, I was born in 1980. When the PS2 hit, I was still in college, whereas when the Wii hit I wasn't. While the average gamer age has been rising thanks to more of us not giving games up as we get older, what people have the time or inclination to play has adjusted some.
Statistically speaking, for the U.S., the average marriage age is in the mid/late 20s, and similarly the age of mothers when their first child is born is in the 20s.

Essentially, the Wii hit around when you would, on average, expect many of the folks born in the later 70s/etc, that really grew up with gaming, to be young parents. Ones that value the low cost, casual, kid friendly gaming on the Wii (and that would be subject to Nintendo nostalgia).

To me, between those reasons, and phone/facebook/etc games, that could really account for the sales trends seen.

[RyaNtheSlayA]

You guys think every one is as knowledgable as you are when it comes to computers"Easy, just -swap-GPU then swap-CPU" when people do not know whats a CPU or a GPU. You will have to understand that buying a game off the shelf and inserting it in a console is much easier than launching a PC with an OS then launch the software within the OS to play the games. Also you have to configure the the joystick. You have to understand that most people out there just want to play games they are unlike you researching and collecting games for the past(at least)5 years.

You must understand that most people out there don't even know they have to update Windows, and the only reason they update their consoles is that it pops up in their face "THERE IS NEW BETTER UPDATE FOR THIS CONSOLE, DO YOU WANT TO UPDATE ? CLICK"

You will be amazed as how many people have hard time dealing with PCs. If you don't believe me, you can go see "average" people using a pc. Things that are common sense to me is pretty difficult to other people.

PCs have all this : Update OS, Upgrade OS, download patches, update games, directX, CPU, GPU, malware, viruses...you get the idea. You don't have to deal with such stuff on a console.

Of course you don't have to deal with it because it's not a PC. Half those things you'd worry about anyways. Besides, PC lifespan is much longer now than it was 10 years ago. I know people that are getting by just fine on C2D machines from 2008 still.

I am not saying PC sucks. I am saying that most people would rather go the easy way. If you finding dealing with a PC is easy as making your morning coffee then be my guest, but PC gaming is not for the average consumer(at least not after 2 years after purchase).

It is that easy. Need new GPU? Unplug the old one and plug in the new one. Need to update the OS? Windows already does that for you. Patch your games? Most games do it on their own, and all Steam games do. Nothing about gaming on PC is any more difficult than browsing the web on PC. The fact is people use that excuse because they don't want/care to learn.

As for ps2 users switching to Wiis , All the people I know with ps2 didn't even care to get a 360 everyone got ps3. Maybe its a different story in the US, while I know shovel ware existed for ps2, last I check Sony entered the market by being the anti-Nintendo by targeting adults hence the games like Resident Evil and Twisted Metal on psx on the opposite of Mario 64 and Mario Kart, and after Sony raped Nintendo ins consoles sales I highly doubt they changed their marketing strategy to target families, the Nintendo strategy.

I won't argue that some people bought the ps2(late 2000) as a dvd player, but I bet you they are the tiny percentage of the 140 million ps2 buyers. I have an EMPIRE magazine here from April,2004(4 years after ps2 launch) that says "VHS-RIP". That means that DVD has been at least the standard for 2 years-2002, that means by 2002 most people had dvd players. So people who bought ps2 for the dvd player only bought it for 2 years out of the total 7 years of ps2 lifetime. How many of those are part of the 140m users.

Marketing wasn't a factor in the PS2's dominance over the casual market. Word of mouth, a competitive price, and the tons and tons of casual shovelware on the system made up for it. Shovelware and casual games flood to whichever console has the highest userbase.

I know here that it wasn't till about 2003ish that I remember everybody getting DVD players.

Keep in mind Nintendo wasn't aiming for families through 1997-2005. It's been only with the Wii and to some extent the DS that Nintendo has seen the potential profit in that market. I'd think that market is slowly being taken by the phone gamer crowd now.

Why does this discussion feel like it's going nowhere...

Because it IS going nowhere.