Entrapment

[dsheinem]

As far as pot affecting someones ability to drive: Oh it is true. Pot changes your judgment, which in turn changes your decision making process, which in turn changes the way you drive. How do I know? My friend once drove through his garage door while stoned because his foot was "way too heavy".

I think he acknowledges this (I'd hope). I think he means there is no evidence that legalizing pot would increase drug related accidents b/c somehow pot smokers are more aware of their driving condition. I don't see how awareness = no increase or (as he suggested) a DECREASE in drug/alcohol related wrecks.

[Luke]

Gotcha.

I certainly don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, that was just a knee jerk interpretation.

Nice to see a more civilized discussion that is without a doubt a circular conversation. As Hobes already mentioned, I don't see this topic going anywhere, but for such a polar issue I think everyone's handled this pretty well.

[Hatta]

Dave, I'll get you some reading material. It's hard to have a serious debate with references and everything on a gaming forum during working hours.

Luke, Cannabis does cause impairment. But it's really just inexperience that is dangerous. It's quite apparent when you're too stoned to drive. If someone is so stoned that they can't pass a field test, then by all means haul them in.

Your comment on contact highs is as ignorant as saying there's no global warming because it's cold out today. Science doesn't work that way. You experienced the placebo effect. The fact that you strongly believe it's a drug effect does not exclude the placebo effect, that's actually required for the placebo effect.

And yes, I meant my statement about Cannabis on the grocery shelves absolutely literally. Cannabis is both less addictive and less toxic than coffee. It's not the boogeyman, it will not steal your children in the night.

The best way to understand the war on drugs is to imagine what would have happened if Jack Thompson had won. If, instead of getting disbarred, he had teamed up with politicians looking for an issue to scare monger their way into incumbancy, and teamed up with media outlets interested in sensational stories, and teamed up with law enforcement who wanted to dramatically increase their budgets. The only difference between Jack Thompson and the drug warriors is that playing video games is a 1st amendment right, while taking drugs is a 9th amendment right, and nobody respects the 9th amendment. The arguments in favor of the war on drugs are every bit as insane as those Jack Thompson used to make.

[Luke]

Your comment on contact highs is as ignorant as saying there's no global warming because it's cold out today.

I'll admit when I'm ignorant, and I'll admit when I'm a hypocrite. With all respect, you sir are making many assumptions from my post. Although I understand that all mods can see my ip address, and other personal information, I do my best to retain some anonymity as a professional.

That said, I've had a contact high that would make B-Real jealous. 5 people in one CRX (tight fit huh?) a 1/4 of kine, and a gravity bong. Didn't take a hit, but dude, you can definitely get high off of second hand smoke. I'm lucky enough to have a diverse group of friends where some smoke, and others do not, and no one really cares. I'll just say I'm not the only person who's had a contact high.

[o.pwuaioc]

Is Hatta really arguing that you can't get high from marijuana smoke?

[Hatta]

Didn't take a hit, but dude, you can definitely get high off of second hand smoke.

You can also get high off of nothing. That's the placebo effect. I assume we're all familiar with the subjective effects of drinking alcohol? If you take a group of drinkers, and give some of them alcohol, and some of them placebo, without letting on as to what you're doing, you can observe the placebo group acting just like the experimental group. Tell the placebo group after the fact, and they're likely to outright disbelieve you.

People dramatically underestimate the power of the placebo effect. Your mindset and expectations have a bigger effect on your consciousness than even the drug itself does, if you take any drugs at all.

But this is getting away from the issue. The number of parents who are going to hot box a CRX with a quarter of dank and their kids is very very small. Certainly not worth imprisoning tens of thousands of people over.

[Luke]

Didn't take a hit, but dude, you can definitely get high off of second hand smoke.

You can also get high off of nothing. That's the placebo effect.

Well, you certainly can learn the definitions of words, I give you that. But as far as your knowledge of second hand smoke and how it can affect someone, you are sooo Alicia Silverstone.


Why am I even debating that marijuana smoke can get people high?

[Breetai]

Yes, smoking around a child is bad, but not THAT bad. I'd say ripping a child from its family and placing it into gov't care is MUCH worse child abuse then smoking around it.

Chances of early lung cancer isn't worse than being removed from a terrible household? As someone who was removed from his parents' house, I say you have no idea what you're talking about.

Yeah, you get a rolling eye smiley. Every situation is different, my friend, and neither of us know how each others life is.

Except that it really should take more than smoking in the house to get the gov't involved. Smoking does not equal a terrible household. Since you brought it up, were you removed because of your parents smoking cigarettes?

[Erik_Twice]

Is Hatta really arguing that you can't get high from marijuana smoke?

Of course not, don't be silly. Hell, marijuana smoke is just the placebo effect and all those times you clearly smell it or see it are just your a manifestation of your paranoia.

[o.pwuaioc]

Yes, smoking around a child is bad, but not THAT bad. I'd say ripping a child from its family and placing it into gov't care is MUCH worse child abuse then smoking around it.

Chances of early lung cancer isn't worse than being removed from a terrible household? As someone who was removed from his parents' house, I say you have no idea what you're talking about.

Yeah, you get a rolling eye smiley. Every situation is different, my friend, and neither of us know how each others life is.

Except that it really should take more than smoking in the house to get the gov't involved. Smoking does not equal a terrible household. Since you brought it up, were you removed because of your parents smoking cigarettes?

No, but that's not what I said, and you've ignored the further elaboration, i.e. if they break the law and smoke around their kids, what other bad choices are they making? I was taken not because they smoked, but they did smoke, and freely at that, without care for my health and well-being, and what was manifest in one instance clearly is seen in another.