Entrapment

[flex wood]

A field sobriety test will not hold up in court and as far as I know there is no way to tell it someone has been smoking. The flip side is how many people do you think already smoke and drive now? I think it would be less of an issue then drunk driving.

Smoking around a child or with is child abuse. I used to live with a girl that did that a friend of mine saw it and reported it to CPS and she lost her daughter over it. So I think that is handled already.

As for where to get it I would like to see the government take control there. I think it would be a good source of revenue. I also think that if it want controlled by the government they would end up over taxing it like they do with cigarettes and alcohol.

I only want to see it legalized so I can stop hearing about how it should be legal by every John Q. Smoker

[Zing]

There are a lot of things that parents do not want their children to do. Not doing drugs is just one of many on the list, and government interference isn't required.

[Luke]

It's easy to see Luke resorting to an ad hominem fallacy because he has no substance to his objection.

I have an objection? An objection to the man? And who is the man? I'll tell you who, Ed Lover:

[Michi]

The way the school system is now, they just want to get kids to pass their multiple choice standardized tests and then they send them off to college, but forget to teach them that whole bit about writing.

I can attest to that. In Florida we have the FCAT. One part of the FCAT is the "Essay" portion. They ask you a mundane question, and you have to answer it. Now I don't know how it is now, but I can guarantee you that when I was still in school, the entire time I was in school, that 75%+ of the actual writing we had to do involved answering previous questions asked on that damned FCAT.

And don't even thing they encouraged creativity either. Nope. They wanted short sentences, that were written to the point, would fit on 1-2 pages, and had a couple vocabulary words that we'd learned that year. That's it. DO NOT DEVIATE FROM THE FORMULA.

My mother always tells me how I hated writing while I was in school and wasn't fond of English class. Really now, after all that crap, is it THAT big of a surprise?

[fvgazi]

I think pot use/possession should be decriminalized and that there should be no penalty for smoking/growing if it is clear you aren't harming others. That said, I still have some serious concerns about legalizing pot:

-Driving. sure, field sobriety tests can suggest that you are stoned, but they aren't near as accurate or defensible as breathalyzer and blood tests are for determining alcohol levels. We need a way to know if someone is driving while high at that very moment and impose penalties accordingly, otherwise we'll see a drastic increase in accidents.

-Secondhand pot smoke and children in the house. Is secondhand cigarette smoke bad? Of course. Can you get high off of it? no. Too many parents are irresponsible, and while it isn't the responsibility of the state to be a parent, it is the responsibility of the state to protect kids from moronic and harmful parents who would be happy to smoke up with an infant in bed next to them . I'd like to know how this issue could be addressed before I'd be happy with any pro-legalization bill.

-A clear plan for how to legalize it. Am I going to buy pot in a tobacconist? Can I grow it? Can I still buy it from a dealer? Is some potency ok and some not? Is it going to be FDA approved? Is it going to be for all ages? 21? 18? Will there be certain locations where it is ok/not ok? I'd like to know what regulations, if any, would accompany a plan to legalize it, and I've never heard any kind of coherent vision of what this would look like.

Perhaps none of these are legitmate concerns, and I'd love to know I have no ground to stand on with any of these points...so tell me why I can unabashedly join in with the pro-legalize movement!

I think I am pro-legalization, but I agree your points here. This is not a black and white issue because of the communicability of the substance (i use that loosely ). You could also argue that smoking tobacco and drinking with your children present is dangerous as well. Not sure if there has to be a law against doing it in front of your kids because I'm sure irresponsible people already do this and the people who are "responsible" users wouldn't do this to begin with. There are plenty of parents being piss drunk in front of their children and harming them via second hand smoke legally. Do we monitor them too?

I definitely agree with the sobriety test. I've always hated when I hear people bragging about how they get home wasted and can drive on so-many-drinks. I've had several people in my life affected by drunk driving accidents as victims and also the perpetrators. Again, responsibility is the main issue here. Unfortunately most people aren't.

That being said; I've never smoked pot, a cigarette, or really even been very drunk in my life.

[MrPopo]

There are plenty of parents being piss drunk in front of their children and harming them via second hand smoke legally. Do we monitor them too?

Right now it depends on tipsters getting CPS involved. It's incredibly flawed and under-staffed and a ton of kids get affected by both. But that's a long tirade I can get on that essentially boils down to I think you need to earn the right to have kids.

[o.pwuaioc]

I have an objection? An objection to the man? And who is the man? I'll tell you who, Ed Lover:

If this conversation were a pie chart, you'd be eating blueberry on the moon.

[Breetai]

The way the school system is now, they just want to get kids to pass their multiple choice standardized tests and then they send them off to college, but forget to teach them that whole bit about writing.

The sad part if, I don't think it was "forgot." At least where I am, a LOT of things have just been written out of the curriculum. I sometimes wonder if the gov't is trying to dumb down the populous.

Smoking around a child or with is child abuse. I used to live with a girl that did that a friend of mine saw it and reported it to CPS and she lost her daughter over it. So I think that is handled already.

I'd like to punch friend in the face, break his nose and knock his teeth out. I'm not joking.

Yes, smoking around a child is bad, but not THAT bad. I'd say ripping a child from its family and placing it into gov't care is MUCH worse child abuse then smoking around it.

Of course, if there are other, MUCH more serious factors involved, then I take back my desire to destroy your friend's face.

[Michi]

The way the school system is now, they just want to get kids to pass their multiple choice standardized tests and then they send them off to college, but forget to teach them that whole bit about writing.

The sad part if, I don't think it was "forgot." At least where I am, a LOT of things have just been written out of the curriculum. I sometimes wonder if the gov't is trying to dumb down the populous.

They are, but I don't think that was their original intention. Standardized tests sound good in theory: To have a well educated population, everybody should know X amount of information. So we'll give everybody a test to make sure the schools are doing a good job and test all the students on X. The problem is, the schools end up focusing more on what the tests focus on and less on actually educating the students.

Example, my Geography class was a joke. Our classroom was in what amounted to an old janitorial closet. Our teacher would give us one worksheet to do for the whole class and put the answers on the board and then lightly erase the board so that you could still see the answers. But I guess that's to be expected from a guy who'd usually show up to class hung-over on Monday's. Luckily he's not there anymore. He quit so he could go finish getting his law degree

[MrPopo]

The way the school system is now, they just want to get kids to pass their multiple choice standardized tests and then they send them off to college, but forget to teach them that whole bit about writing.

The sad part if, I don't think it was "forgot." At least where I am, a LOT of things have just been written out of the curriculum. I sometimes wonder if the gov't is trying to dumb down the populous.

They are, but I don't think that was their original intention. Standardized tests sound good in theory: To have a well educated population, everybody should know X amount of information. So we'll give everybody a test to make sure the schools are doing a good job and test all the students on X. The problem is, the schools end up focusing more on what the tests focus on and less on actually educating the students.

Example, my Geography class was a joke. Our classroom was in what amounted to an old janitorial closet. Our teacher would give us one worksheet to do for the whole class and put the answers on the board and then lightly erase the board so that you could still see the answers. But I guess that's to be expected from a guy who'd usually show up to class hung-over on Monday's. Luckily he's not there anymore. He quit so he could go finish getting his law degree

Standardized testing being tied to funding is just asking for trouble.

Yes, smoking around a child is bad, but not THAT bad. I'd say ripping a child from its family and placing it into gov't care is MUCH worse child abuse then smoking around it.

It's not so much the specific harm being done by the smoking, so much as the parent showing poor judgement which will likely translate into future bad decisions. It's like how you condemn a building for being a fire trap even though no fire has broken out yet.