World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[Flake]

Under the traditional model of deterrence theory, I do not fear Iran getting a nuclear weapon. It would probably never be in their interest to use one so I doubt anything would come of it.

But in the last ten years, I think we have seen globalization and with it economic deterrence become a greater force than nuclear deterrence, an unthinkable state of affairs even a couple of decades ago.

In that system...I just don't know. Iran is pretty bonkers when it comes to cutting off their nose to spite their face economically. Add nuclear weapons to the mix and I honestly am not sure what we will be looking at.

[ZeroAX]

You know there will come a day that some country/dictator/president/whatever will be crazy enough to use its nuclear weapon. Why risk it by allowing even more countries to have nuclear weapons? Specially religious fanatical countries.

[Flake]

You know there will come a day that some country/dictator/president/whatever will be crazy enough to use its nuclear weapon. Why risk it by allowing even more countries to have nuclear weapons? Specially religious fanatical countries.

You can't attribute increased risk to religious fanaticism. Secularists can be just as wacky, too. Just look at the Khmer Rouge.

The effectiveness of deterrence has always been derived from universal application of the principle: No matter what, the person in control of a nuclear weapon has to have a specific amount of power and financial backing to maintain credibility with that weapon. Deploying a nuke is not a decision that will be made by anyone at the top unless they can be reasonably assured that there will be no nuclear retaliation in turn.

So who would Iran strike? The US? Israel? The moment the nuclear card was on the table, Iran would be vaporized.

So that doesn't scare me as much as Iran selling nuclear arms to a proxy power who could strike while affording Iran plausible deniability. Economic deterrence...how do you deal with it? How do you use it?

[Hatta]

Who do you think is calling for an attack on Iran in the first place?

Iran is, when their president said that he wanted to "wipe Israel off the map."

Yeah, and I bet that slut was asking for it too.

Iran is pretty disfunctional. But it's our fault that it's disfunctional, and they're still a sovereign nation. We screwed up Iran, and no amount of further interference can make that better. As a sovereign nation, they have as much right to own nuclear warheads as the US does. The only meaningful thing the US can do to deescalate this situation is to withdraw from the middle east and disarm its nuclear arsenal.

Unless we can prove to Iran that they don't need nukes to defend against our aggression (which is an absolutely reasonable position for them to take) they will persue and eventually acquire nuclear weapons.

[MrPopo]

Who do you think is calling for an attack on Iran in the first place?

Iran is, when their president said that he wanted to "wipe Israel off the map."

Yeah, and I bet that slut was asking for it too.

Really? That's your comparison? A real comparison would be how the police respond to threats of violence. Namely, they take it seriously and take steps to prevent it.

[Hatta]

It's not our place to be the world's policeman. If Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map, that's Israel's problem.

[BoringSupreez]

It's not our place to be the world's policeman. If Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map, that's Israel's problem.

If we don't take the place of the world's policeman, who will? Russia? China? We're the best ones for the job.

[MrPopo]

It's not our place to be the world's policeman. If Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map, that's Israel's problem.

If we don't take the place of the world's policeman, who will? Russia? China? We're the best ones for the job.

I suspect Hatta doesn't believe anyone should police the world.

But let's go down that train of thought. Israel is our friend. Should we just stand by while another country threatens them? We can stand by Israel without policing the world; for example, let's say we don't give a shit about Argentina and we stand by while Brazil decides to invade them.

[Hatta]

Israel is our friend.

Are they really? What do we get out of our "friendship" with Israel that would be worth instigating WWIII? Should we really be friendly with a theocratic state that knowingly commits war crimes?
Is there a reason we care more about the people of Israel than we do the people of Syria or we did the people of Sudan?

[MrPopo]

Israel is our friend.

Are they really? What do we get out of our "friendship" with Israel that would be worth instigating WWIII? Should we really be friendly with a theocratic state that knowingly commits war crimes?
Is there a reason we care more about the people of Israel than we do the people of Syria or we did the people of Sudan?

You're shifting the target of the debate. Israel is our friend; fact. Given that fact, how should we react to threats against them?