Lives & Continues

[sabrage]

Now, I don't play games "casually." I deeply appreciate a challenge, and most of the games I seek out are pretty hard. That's what's led me to old-school gaming in the first place, as I've found that newer games are too easy and lazy for my tastes. At one point in Assassin's Creed I wanted to restart a time trial, but there's no menu option to restart instantly so I decided to kill myself. It took at least a minute of standing still, letting numerous guards attack me to die. I think it was maybe one of two or three times that dying was not related to jumping off a tall building due to a control hiccup or my own stupidity. That's not fun.

But as much as I enjoy challenge and the repetition inherent (every time I describe Demon's Souls to one of my friends, they say "It makes you restart the entire level? That's retarded!") Demon's Souls rewards me for that repetition, though. I always find myself annoyed by games with limited lives. There are some exceptions - shmups and other score-attack-based games in particular - but I'm not a score-chaser myself. I play shmups to blow a lot of shit up and marvel at the artwork. I was playing Mega Man Zero this morning and I couldn't for the life of me figure out what the life system added. I would beat the whole level without dying, reach the boss and get a game over - only to repeat the easy-ass level again and get another game over. It doesn't add any challenge; the boss is still hard, but I always reach it with the same amount of life and the same elves and the same amount of sword upgrades, so why not just leave the checkpoint at the boss's front step and let me play it until I win?

I've never bought a Game Shark or Genie or any other device like that in my life, but I'm seriously considering buying one just to add infinite lives or continues to my games. There was one particular section in Donkey Kong Country where you need to play through 4 levels in a row without a save point or a barrel plane. Not too bad, except I forgot to go back to Jungle Hijinks and stock up on lives... So when I got a game over on the last level, forcing me to go back to the first and do it all over again, I didn't feel challenged. I just felt irritated. Between replaying easy sections to farm lives, or forced repetition of levels I've already mastered, it simply serves as an artificial construct to extend game time (or, as the case may be, force you to cough up more quarters.)

While I understand there's a certain grace to mastering a game for no-hit or speed runs, not only do those things barely appeal to me but I would argue that limited lives and continues do nothing to encourage this behavior. Just look at more recent games like I Wanna Be the Guy, VVVVVV and Super Meat Boy that still possess that old-school challenge, while eliminating all the frustration and focusing on fun with instant respawns and infinite lives.

Even in relatively easy games like Mario, they don't really serve a purpose if I never see the Game Over screen anyways! The system is a relic of a bygone era that, though important or even necessary back in the day, serves no purpose today. If the limited lives/continues in older titles are standing as a barrier to my enjoyance of them, I really see no reason for them to stay. If I have to use a Game Genie or equivalent to remove this barrier, I really don't see any harm in that.

[BoringSupreez]

I've never much cared for the lives system. It's part of the reason I consider Banjo Tooie a better game than the first. Like you said, it adds little to the game, other than repetition and frustration.

[o.pwuaioc]

Super Mario Bros would be too easy if you just automatically respawned ad infinitum after each death exactly where you last hit a "save point". The problem with Mega Man Zero isn't that the lives add nothing, but rather the developers should have made the pre-levels easier (unless you're just that good - I wouldn't know, I never played it).

[KDub]

There needs to be barriers for gaming. In my opinion if a game offers unlimited lives the checkpoints should be almost non existent. If the game saves at the start of each new thing there should be a life limit. If I can die 500000000 times with no consequences...what the hell is the point of playing the game?

[ninjainspandex]

and this is why i love rayman origins that game would be frustrating as shit if it had limited lives, its hard enough collecting all the damn lums i dont want to have to worry about having to start the whole damn game over

[alienjesus]

I'm of the opinion that modern mario games only have a lives system because the 1up mushroom is such an iconic image of gaming.

[god]

I recently started playing Contra: Hard Corps. I needed to get myself a game genie too because its region locked. While I was at it I decided to use the 25 lives cheat. I am glad I did. My life has changed a lot since I beat Super Probotector a bit over three years ago. I am not sure if I ever would have beaten Hard Corps with the limited time I have for gaming these days. It truly is the "Stairway" of 16 bit gaming. Tht last level is simply the most awesome thing I've ever seen. So, I concur with the sentiment of the op. I am a cheater.

[Ivo]

I agree that in many types of games, it is useless and detracts from the point.

Worse than the lives / continue system is not being able to stop any time you want. I don't mean "save" any time you want, as there are extremely valid uses for "checkpoints" in game design. But the technology exists (and some games use it) to save and when resuming delete the save - and basically every game would be better with this option. Real life happens and it really sucks in a very special way to either lose progress or to waste time frantically looking for the next checkpoint or save point when you would just want to stop right now.

Ivo.

[Zing]

Everyone has had their share of holding several dozen lives in a Mario game. However, Modern Mario games have essentially no penalty for a "game over", other than having to spend a few seconds clicking "continue".

It's even worse in Skyward Sword. If you "game over", you start back at the last bird statue, whether you actually saved your game or not. I don't even know why the game asks you if you want to save, or why there is a save process at all! The game should just automatically save at whatever point it is making these checkpoints in the first place.

The save system in Donkey Kong Country did seem extremely forced. So let me get this straight… if I am near the end of the world, I can freely go back to Candy (or visit Funky and fly to her on a previous level) and save at any time. However, if I am at the first half of a world, I can't save at all? Donkey Kong Country 2 tried to fix this, but ultimately made it even worse. Now you pay coins to save, but coins are very easy to find. So you sometimes have to start a level, grab two coins, exit the level, then save.

Lives and life systems are often superfluous. However, there needs to be some sort of penalty for performing poorly in a game. This creates an enjoyable tension. Losing a large chunk of progress in the game is clearly not enjoyable. Woe be to he who forgets to use a tent outside of a large dungeon in Final Fantasy. Balanced systems such as in Dragon Warrior, where you simply lose half of your gold, introduce the right about of tension. A system that maintains your plot and character progression, while penalizing secondary attributes and goals.

[AppleQueso]

Since we're talking not only lives, but save systems too, I gotta ask...

What are your opinions on Resident Evil and its Ink Ribbons? You actually have to use an item to save, and this item has a very finite supply.