Lack of realism in games

[lost_within]

anyone remember n64...Biosomething....i just remember stabbing and cutting things up in it...fighting game. Bio....something

[Ack]

You mean Biofreaks.

Frankly, I think it comes down to the game. Certain games I like being totally goofy. Some games, I like going for realism. For instance, there's a popular mod for Battlefield 2 called "Project Reality," where they try to make things as realistic as possible. It works pretty well from what I hear. COD4 has a mod called TRM that apparently does the same thing. With COD4, I like the realism, so I'm looking into TRM, as the game is still pretty unrealistic with some of its physics. But that doesn't mean I want realism in, say, TFC, where I can use grenades to launch myself across a map.

Comes down to how the game is designed, I say.

[ImportBoy]

All depends on the game I think....one hit your dead in shooter games would get old quickly I think (unless you re-spawn like in UT multiplayer or something). Shenmue I think comes pretty close to delivering realism. Like as someone mention with Ico - people attack with non-leathal realistic means.

[Ack]

I say it also depends on how the game is setup, though. For instance, you can get wasted pretty easily in Battlefield 2142, but there are Medics to revive guys who get wasted, and provide health to those that get wounded. The tactical FPS can be a lot of fun, even if you do get wasted after one bullet to the dome.

[retro_gammer79]

That's why it's a game and not real life, duh, get over it.

[ott0bot]

I like my realistic games to be real as they can be. But I think the most interesting thing about games is when they are so different from reality that they put you in a different world alltogether. I think thats what the real charm of games are and why retro games are so amazing. You'll never see this stuff in real life, it's art and entertainment rolled into one in the best possible way.

[peace4myheart]

Two words. Second Life. Why do you think it is so popular. People's lives are boring and mundane. Why the hell would they want to play a game like that when they already live it???

[lordofduct]

You already listed several games that are realistic. And they have their merits.

Gameplay is gameplay... and they all do their own thing for it. Yeah I've repeatedly thought FPS are very unrealistic in the amount of fire power you can withstand... but if you died so easily you'd never really get into the really fun shoot outs you get into.



And my only thing to say about your comment about movies... ermmm, I'm not sure what movies you watch. But aside from your dramas, I'm pretty used to the super heroes taking bullets and surviving due to their "lucky" amulet or some bullshit in their breast pocket, or that fateful body armor they so happened to put on under their freakin' wife beater... or 1 man taking down an entire roof top of bad guys. People like escaping reality, some like immersing into it. All games shouldn't go for realism, but some games do... but if Sonic or Katamari were realistic... well Sonic and Katamari wouldn't exist.

[Gamerforlife]

You already listed several games that are realistic. And they have their merits.

Gameplay is gameplay... and they all do their own thing for it. Yeah I've repeatedly thought FPS are very unrealistic in the amount of fire power you can withstand... but if you died so easily you'd never really get into the really fun shoot outs you get into.



And my only thing to say about your comment about movies... ermmm, I'm not sure what movies you watch. But aside from your dramas, I'm pretty used to the super heroes taking bullets and surviving due to their "lucky" amulet or some bullshit in their breast pocket, or that fateful body armor they so happened to put on under their freakin' wife beater... or 1 man taking down an entire roof top of bad guys. People like escaping reality, some like immersing into it. All games shouldn't go for realism, but some games do... but if Sonic or Katamari were realistic... well Sonic and Katamari wouldn't exist.

Well, typically when I see an action movie that involves lots of firepower, the lack of realism is more so in the hero's ability to AVOID getting a bullet wound, while in games a character can get shot over and over again and be fine. I guess that I can more easily accept a person's unnatural ability to avoid bullets than his ability to simply absorb them. It just looks stupid to me to see a character getting shot in a game and just act like he just got a mosquito bite. In most movies I've seen when a character does get shot, it's typically in the movie's climactic sequence and it's maybe one or two bullets that aren't fatal. They'll find some way to succeed though even with the wounds they've got and it adds to the suspense of the scene. It's not like in a video game where you get shot up in every level and not only survive but don't even seem affected at all by those bullet wounds.

And speaking for myself personally, I'd prefer the fun of shootouts where you HAD to avoid bullet wounds just like in most movies. For one thing, it would force designers to get more creative and less lazy in how they design levels and enemy encounters if they weren't allowed to simply litter every area with health packs for players to use.

Sonic and Katamari don't need to be realistic because they are in a fantasy world that doesn't even remotely resemble our own. I mean Sonic is basically a cartoon world where reality doesn't apply, and Katamari is like some alternate reality dreamed up by someone on an acid trip. But most shooters try very hard to seem as close to our reality as possible and even strive for realism in the graphics. They want you to get immersed in their world like it's real, but the very nature of the gameplay prevents that.

I guess my issue is more with a lack of realism in certain genres. Most platformers for example, are like cartoons. And no one expects cartoons to be realistic, but if a shooter wants to be "cinematic"you can't have characters who can get shot fifty times and be fine. Even the most exaggerated action movies don't go that far. And other shooters are just trying to mimic the real world, but don't actually follow any real world rules with regards to a character's mortality

I'm not saying ALL games should be realistic, I just wish they weren't in the minority. Especially with the word realism getting tossed around so frequently in the media, but not really being true in most cases. Plus, the whole "next gen" term. To me, realism should be one of the things that so called "next gen" games should strive for if they are really going to seperate themselves from the games of last gen. Prettier graphics don't mean squat, and that seems to be the only thing the words next gen really apply to right now

I guess maybe the whole reason I started this topic is because of how silly it seems to me to hear people so often throw around the words realistic and immersion when neither of those words apply to the great majority of games that aren't striving for realistic worlds that a player can really and truly get immersed in. I can't get immersed in a world where my character never suffers any real injury and finds health pack conveniently lying around everywhere he goes that magically heal the wounds he doesn't even seem to really have. I think people(and I think I'm mostly referring to video game reviewers)need to find out what it REALLY means to make a realistic, immersive world before they go applying those words to everything they play.

Just my opinions, this isn't so much a rant just something I wanted people to discuss.

[lordofduct]

I can agree with your opinion for the most part on all those points. And in some of your more "supposedly realistic" games it would be nice for some more realism. One thing I never got is the stupid wooden door I can't open with a bazooka, because I need a damn key or some shit. Yet just last level I blew up a giant armed metal robot or something.

But:

And speaking for myself personally, I'd prefer the fun of shootouts where you HAD to avoid bullet wounds just like in most movies. For one thing, it would force designers to get more creative and less lazy in how they design levels and enemy encounters if they weren't allowed to simply litter every area with health packs for players to use.
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As a game designer myself, I have to say, this isn't an easy task at all.

Now yes, I do consider some of the companies out there lazy because they rehash the same exact gameplay over and over and over (most prevalent in FPS games and racers). But a skilled group of programmers and designers that can come up with ideas to overcome this kind of thing and implement it in game is very hard.

It's kinda like when I've been asked by my none hard core gamer friends, "So in 10 years, where do you see graphics?" And I respond, "I see them only slightly better then they are now... what I do see is more stuff on screen at once along with more expansive territory to explore. But graphics themselves are coming to a plateau."

"WHY!?"

Well keep in mind, do you know who makes these games? I'll tell you who, kids. Guys and gals our own age and competence. My buddy Adny is working on the latest Marvel Alliance 2 and is getting to draw the "castle of doom" (i think that's what it's called, not a Marvel fan here) for Dr. Doom (is that his name!?). He's all excited... he's 24 and has worked with me and all my other friends on art projects since we were little kids. He's AWESOME, I mean really freakin' good. It blows me away the shit he can pop out of his ass in a matter of seconds. But he has his peak, there is only so much he can do.

My ex room mate did the event scripting for Call of Duty 4, nice guy... but he never even went to school for this job. He's smart, we've chatted on occasion. But he's still just an average joe, 25 years old, likes to sit around and watch cooking shows and pet his dog.

I wouldn't call it being lazy, because these guys work hard. And a single project has a lot of them on. It takes a lot of time and money to make what the made, let alone anything more complex. And assume you generate something even more complex, now you need that group of lower level programmers to script events for levels... these cats aren't software engineers, they're scripting jockeys. There is only so much they know! And with games already costing milliions of dollars to make now a days, what do you expect?


Yes... these are the kinds of guys making your videogames:



Don't worry though, all these people I know who do this for a living. Well we spend every waking hour of the day honing our skills. We want to make that super awesome, realistic, fast paced, in your face, killer app that everyone loves. We practice and practice... and oh my God I think I'm gonna blow my brains out practice. I eat, sleep, drink, and fuck programming. Adny get's off of 10 to 12 hours of work, comes home and sits on his computer into the wee hours drawing new models and stuff because he wants to. He assists me on side projects that aren't related to his real job so we can make indie games (that have more freedom due to a lack of big companies telling you NO). You'll get what your looking...

just keep screaming for it... it'll come.