Help with SCART to Y-U-V converter and PC capture card.

[matacks]

Hello, I'm starting another thread about SCART to YUV converters and cables.

My problem is trying to use a PC video capture card to capture an input signal coming from a SCART to YUV (component) converter box. I have one of the ebay converter boxes.

I have these consoles (all NTSC region) along with SCART cables to go with them. I have a sony HD TV that has no problem displaying the signal coming the the SCART converter. I get a really awesome picture from most of these old consoles on the HD TV.

summery of how my consoles are working with the scart setup:

sega genesis/CD -
excellent video quality through the component cables, really happy
luckily I can output the audio directly form the sega CD instead of having to go through the switcher box which gives me great stereo.

super nintendo -
Its good but on some games I get an ugly looking checkerboard pattern on certain colors. Maybe this has to do with splitting up the video signals in a way they were not intended.

sega saturn-
havent got this one to work with SCART cables. bought two different scart cables for this one. Unable to find a 21 pin RGB cable. I may have bought PAL (cables or SCART).
I dunno how to make this one work.

playstation 1-
awesome just awesome video through the scart cable/scart converter. Even the audio sounds good when run through the selector box.

sega wondermega
It's been modified by a Japanese guy to output RGB and works with a PSX adapter that plugs into the wondermega. This allows for a PSX scart cable to be plugged into the adapter. Works awesome although I think he made a mistake in wiring the audio connections because one the audio channels seems partially muted. :/

out of all these cables Im not exactly sure which ones are SCART and which are 21 pin RGB. I bought one cable from Japan that I was sure was a 21 pin RGB (for PSX). The weird thing is, that was one of the cables that ended up not working with the converter box. Maybe I need to look at more wiring diagrams to understand but I find them confusing.

So all that being said back to my main problem with the PC capture card. It is a blackmagic intensity pro PCI-E card. It has inputs and outputs for s-video, component and HDMI. Its a very nice piece of hardware and its software is really good as well, except.

It wont capture a signal coming from the SCART to YUV converter box. I've tried everything to get it to work by messing with settings in the software. I was successful in getting the card to capture video from an Xbox 360 (output @ 720i and 1080i) but the main reason I bought the card was to capture component video from my old consoles.

I think the output resolution from the scart to YUV converter from my old consoles is 240p, I think?


I was gonna try to call the tech guy who works for the capture card company but I figured I should try to confuse people here before confusing that guy. I suppose theres a chance this card wont work for what Im trying to do at all.
Any ideas or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.

[deathsled]

super nintendo -
Its good but on some games I get an ugly looking checkerboard pattern on certain colors. Maybe this has to do with splitting up the video signals in a way they were not intended.

What you are seeing is the result of the programmers using a trick to simulate a color that was not actually available on the SNES (or palette in use) and too good of a picture coming from your SCART connection. The programmers created a checker board pattern with 2 colors and then relied on the blurriness of the typical RF or composite connections to blend together to fool your eye into seeing a color in between the two.

[8-bit Miniboss]

I have a Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle, a similar device to the Pro. I had a curt discussion with Blackmagic-Design's tech support regarding capturing retro consoles with it. The short answer is that because the SCART to YUV Component adapter outputs at 240p the card will not recognize it. I even grabbed a SCART to HDMI converter to test and that doesn't work either because it outputs at a refresh rate the card does not expect. The main reason they gave me was that 240p is not a "broadcast standard" in their words.

The capture cards are really specific on what it'll take to produce an image. The best that I was able to do was to ask for a feature request that 240p support to be added. But unless there's a demand for it, don't expect much. But please do put in a feature request for it.

Otherwise, there's not much options to capture consoles' RGB signals beyond Micomsoft's SC-500N1 or the Sweetspot Video Processor (which may or may not work depending on your setup).

[matacks]

ah thanks, yea I was beginning to figure as much.


those links are interesting. I wonder how do you capture audio with that second card? I no idea how I would even purchase the one in Japan. Ya I cant use that second one atleast, Im running win 7.

at this point im looking at some kind of video scaler that can up-convert the signal to something the black magic intensity pro can pick up. There this thing being sold on something on ebay but I think its a gamble whether it would work or not because it outputs a signal of 720p. I still think the card wont detect this because when I use the xbox 360 it will only detect it if the output signal is set to 720i.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1280X800-VGA-Co ... 3a6b496a8d

I guess the only other option would be to get an XRGB3 but man I'm not that dedicated to burn that kind of cash.

[sqwirral]

super nintendo -
Its good but on some games I get an ugly looking checkerboard pattern on certain colors. Maybe this has to do with splitting up the video signals in a way they were not intended.

What you are seeing is the result of the programmers using a trick to simulate a color that was not actually available on the SNES (or palette in use) and too good of a picture coming from your SCART connection. The programmers created a checker board pattern with 2 colors and then relied on the blurriness of the typical RF or composite connections to blend together to fool your eye into seeing a color in between the two.

Just googled this weird checkered effect with scart and found this page.

I thought maybe it was a method to get more colours too - but there's no way composite/rf would have blurred it enough to hide it, and it doesn't show up in an emulator.

An example is Super Tennis title screen, the background should be all 1 solid blue colour, no gradient. It appears checkered with my scart lead but not on composite/emulators. It wouldn't even make sense they would need to use 2 different blues just to get one plain generic colour.

[8-bit Miniboss]

By way of an old twitch.tv support thread, I picked up a Component to HDMI converter and hooked up my SNES. The device handshakes HDMI at 720p@60fps and the BMI picks it up. I'm gonna test out my other consoles and see how things turn out for those. But so far the only negative is that since it's at 720p I can't set the screen ratio anymore and have to play games in widescreen, but you can fix that with capture software. The quality isn't reduced much, it looks almost as good as if you were going to the TV itself.

This'll be a decent stopgap until I get the money for a frame meister.

As far as lag is concerned, I'm not overly sensitive like SRK folk, and didn't feel any lag. I even put in Street Fighter II and seemed pretty responsive to my actions.

[theclaw]

First step is figuring one which type of converter you own. Japan 21 pin RGB cables will not work correct if at all on a SCART converter, or the other direction. Different pinout.

Also note Saturn had a changed AV pinout in Europe. Meaning similar to SNES you may run into problems on wrong cables.

I assume what you want is a Europe wired SCART cable that's for an NTSC Saturn?

[matacks]

First step is figuring one which type of converter you own. Japan 21 pin RGB cables will not work correct if at all on a SCART converter, or the other direction. Different pinout.

Also note Saturn had a changed AV pinout in Europe. Meaning similar to SNES you may run into problems on wrong cables.

I assume what you want is a Europe wired SCART cable that's for an NTSC Saturn?

well, I have the ebay scart to YUV converter. seen Here

This works for me on all the consoles listed above but your saying that only my scart cables for NTSC consoles are the only which work? I thought SCART cables were for PAL consoles.

All of my consoles are NTSC. I've popped open a few of my SCART/21 pin RGB cables and looking at the assortment of rainbow colored wires gives me a headache at first glance. I do know how to solder though. Maybe I could attempt to learn how to rewire some the cables that dont work like my sega saturn cable.

but still, why would SCART cables work on my NTSC consoles? Im at a loss here. Basically, I dont know what the heck is going on.

If im understanding you correctly, the scart cables I own that work on NTSC consoles are meant to work on NTSC consoles.

[theclaw]

No. SCART and 21pin, refers to how RGB cables are wired. Not consoles or video formats. RGB is still RGB. Any console with RGB output on one cable type could use the other. Which cable to use, depends on what device it'll be plugged into.

See it was a poor decision on the part of Japanese TV makers. TVs sold in Japan used a different pinout from SCART, despite their same purpose (RGB) and having a connector that fits!

Anyway you own a SCART converter. Japanese cables are incompatible as I've said before.

Another fact to be aware is your converter only changes RGB direct into YUV. No scaling, aspect ratio correction, or any other extras.

So even with an RGB ready console and correct cable... Using that converter the TV must still support the resolution and sync rate your consoles output. For example a PAL console hooked to the converter, would continue to output 50hz after conversion to YUV.