Nerds and Male Privilege

The Philosophy, Art, and Social Influence of games
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Hobie-wan
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Re: Nerds and Male Privilege

Post by Hobie-wan »

pepharytheworm wrote:Why does it have to be mentioned that certain games were made by women? Games should be appreciated as a game not by what sex made them.


I was bringing it up to point out that women were designing games back in the 'bad old days' when people tend to think that everything video game related was all males all the time, whether it be creating or playing them. I agree that a good game is a good game.
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Radical Lanzar
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Re: Nerds and Male Privilege

Post by Radical Lanzar »

Long story short, both men and women are objectified. The medium chosen (gaming), is a gimmick chosen to write about something controversial to a target audience. And that's what it is, controversy. Look at the debates and feedback it is sparking. He's writing for an online entertainment magazine isn't he? What a way to get user involvement and hits to the site. That's good for revenue.

It's all in knowing your audience. All the debate in the world and nodding our heads in a matter-of-factually-speaking context, isn't going to change objectifying women, or the real problem. Greed. That's right, greed. We're talking about an entertainment industry that doesn't care if your feelings are hurt, if your thoughts are revoked or if you are made to look like a fool. Advertiser's don't care either. You are a statistic to them and your gender is a cash cow waiting to be milked.

As it is, this is a poorly written article. He points the finger rather than giving constructive comments. Anyone can do that.

[Edit] For that matter, it's probably why the article is so long winded; easy to make.
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Tempest
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Re: Nerds and Male Privilege

Post by Tempest »

That is an interesting article, although far too limited for the scope of the topic, which, to be honest, is massive. I’ve really enjoyed reading the responses to it in this forum, with people coming at it from a far more intelligent and a wide variety of angles. I’m glad to see that there are intelligent gamers out there. :)

Sexism is prevalent throughout our culture, not just in nerd or game culture. For example, look at the way products are advertised in print media: women are portrayed as sexualised beings in the most ludicrous of situations just to allure men towards purchasing a product. Look at the following example: http://trendland.net/2010/04/18/40-best-sex-ads/best-sex-ads-1/. As a product for men, the woman’s scantily clad body, focusing on sexualised parts, is only there to lure men to the product via connotations of what the male viewer might be able to do with the body, thus perpetrating the over-sexualisation of women.

Granted, here in Australia, many television advertisements potray women as smarter than men, who are portrayed as idiots, but in most other forms of media, women are portrayed as nothing more than sexualised beings willing to pleasure men.

When I was a young boy and teenager, I have to admit to enjoying the sexualised portrayal of women in games (and other media) but as I grow older, the amount of sexism in games when developers are purposely aiming for ‘realism’ is quite perverse. Most males will probably admit to the allure of a sexualised woman, and there’s nothing wrong with that in games, because sex is part of being a woman (and a man for that matter, which is rarely portrayed, but that’s another topic). But once you get beyond that, female characters in games are portrayed as hollow beings who need rescuing or being told what to do. Princess Peach is the epitome of the princess in need of saving, and the ‘dumb blonde’ who always gets into trouble. In Sonic Adventure Amy Rose is portrayed as a stereotypical woman, only interested in shopping and her ‘man’ (Sonic). Granted, there are actually women out there like this, but this is usually only one side of them and there are also women who have much more depth to their personality, which is lacking in videogames in general. And these two characters are in games aimed at children!

What concerns me is the message that games are sending to the unenlightened, especially children. Are children, who don’t know any different, expected to grow up thinking that men are supposed to dominate women whose only purpose is to sexually gratify men? Are girls expected to take on this role of being an object of men’s desire willingly? Judging from the portrayal of women in games and other mediums, like film, the answer is yes. This makes for a very hollow society in my opinion. But we all know this portrayal is false.

Like many other forum members have posted, women should be equally entitled to be who they are, as men are, regardless of their gender. This needs to be reflected in the sorts of females portrayed in games. There’s nothing wrong with having women portrayed a femme fatales or sex kittens, because there are people out there like that, and roles for these sorts of characters within stories. Videogames are, after all, meant to be a portrayal of fantasy. However, there needs to be an equal, if not larger, number of strong, realistic females portrayed in games. For every blonde bimbo there should be three or four strong willed women in games. Equally, there needs to be men who are not portrayed as strong, buff characters, but men who are weak and flawed, just like in real life. In other words, what we need is equality in videogames: men and women who are portrayed along the entire spectrum of who and what they can be or become.

This issue is not just confined to videogames, but to society in general. And until steps are made towards this equality in the real world, it is unlikely to occur in games. Still, we have come a long way from the days of women being confined to the kitchen and being subservient to men, as portrayed in this advertisement: http://www.collapseboard.com/everett-true/attempted-clarification-on-the-triple-j-sexism-blog-entry/attachment/sexism-4/, so progress is being made, but perhaps not as fast as we would like or fast as women deserve. Unfortunately, that’s the nature of society: change is usually slow.

One other aspect I’d like to briefly touch on is that men are wired to see women as sexual objects. I’m not saying this to be chauvinistic, but in the real real world (ie. not what society portrays as “reality” – think of the natural world, or of our cavemen ancestors) our priority is survival of the self and the species. If men were not wired to see women as objects for sex, then we wouldn’t be alive today. Granted, we live in a more (one would think) mature society, so one would think we could be more intelligent about it, and portray women as the equal to men (because, let's face it, they are just as good, if not better (depending on the person) than men. Yet it is still part of our DNA. Therefore, to get to overcome this situation, of women being portrayed as sexualised objects, men’s brains would need to be rewired, in a psychological sense, where they grow up viewing women as their equals. I can’t see this coming to full fruition in a patriarchal society, but perhaps it’s possible in a matriarchal society.

In the end, sexuality is part of being a woman, just like it is for a man, but there’s much more to women than being objectified and it’s the responsibility of the people who create opportunities for the portrayal of women in media like games to reveal this to their audience.
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Radical Lanzar
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Re: Nerds and Male Privilege

Post by Radical Lanzar »

In response to tempest -

The girl from El Viento
Sailor Moon and co from Sailor Moon RPG - Another Story
Amy Rose beats the snot out of Sonic in Sonic Heroes
Samus Aran from the early Metroid games, not to mention Mother Brain
The Apparoid queen from Starfox
Yuko Asou from Valis III
The driver from Super Hang-On is revealed to be a woman in higher difficulty settings
Chun Li from Street Fighter (sure she's sexual, she can also kick your ass)
Rena Lanford from Star Ocean
Mint Adnade from Tales of Phantasia
Krystal from Starfox Assault and Star Fox Adventures
Princess Peach from the Mario series.
The female leads from Jet Grind Radio

Now if we are going to talk sexual, I am going to give a nod towards Dead or Alive, and even in the early series, they were pretty clad.
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Not_a_sockpuppet
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Re: Nerds and Male Privilege

Post by Not_a_sockpuppet »

Tempest wrote:But once you get beyond that, female characters in games are portrayed as hollow beings who need rescuing or being told what to do. Princess Peach is the epitome of the princess in need of saving, and the ‘dumb blonde’ who always gets into trouble.

Ok, let's stop here.

As I have already noted, it's dangerous to say that Princess Peach is sexist because she is weak or in need or saving. A "weak" female character is not a representation of sexism anymore than any other "weak" person is, understanding when a character is "weak" and when it's weak because it's representing women is important and something you seem to miss here.

There's nothing in Super Mario Bros claiming that Princess Peach is a representation of women everywhere. Nothing at all. To claim otherwise is projecting, enemy of truth.

I also find specially bigoted how you claim that Princess Peach must be a blonde stereotype and how she is dumb, when there's little to the character to claim so. Again, what stupid things does she say so as stupidness be part of her character? That you correlate dumb blonde women with a stereotype, as if a blond stupid woman weren't a stupid person first and blond second is also quite baffling.

I mean, is Peach a stereotype but Pauline (brown-haired) is fine? Can you have a dumb blonde woman and not be sexist? It seems that you pretty much can't.

For every blonde bimbo there should be three or four strong willed women in games.

Why? Should the same apply to the rest of characters? Should we have three or four good guys for each bad one? What kind of logic is this? Is cyberpunk a bigoted genre because flaws abound? Is Film Noir a genre to bury and destroy?

No, women should also be flawed but not as women but as people. To think otherwise is to deshumanize them, to not treat them as they should. This way of thinking is greatly harming female progress in many fields, comedy among them.

If men were not wired to see women as objects for sex, then we wouldn’t be alive today.

There's no need for dehumanization in order to have a sexual interest in anyone, to argue otherwise is silly and, frankly, dehumanizing itself. Sexual interest is as human as emotions can get.

Just my two cents.
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Re: Nerds and Male Privilege

Post by dsheinem »

haven't read this yet, but here's a follow up: http://kotaku.com/5873885/nerds-and-mal ... -arguments
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Tempest
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Re: Nerds and Male Privilege

Post by Tempest »

Not_a_sockpuppet wrote:I also find specially bigoted how you claim that Princess Peach must be a blonde stereotype and how she is dumb, when there's little to the character to claim so. Again, what stupid things does she say so as stupidness be part of her character? That you correlate dumb blonde women with a stereotype, as if a blond stupid woman weren't a stupid person first and blond second is also quite baffling.


Like you say, there's nothing to establish Peach as much of a character. She is not given any personality in any of the Mario games I've played. She seems kind, yet constantly being captured by Bowser suggests stupidity because a well rounded character wouldshe learn from her mistakes and create defences of some kind to prevent being captured again. Granted, the stories of the Mario games are meant to be taken lightly, but what impression is this putting on the series' main target audience: young boys and girls who are impressionable? Are they to assume that all women are like this, needing to be rescued, thus portraying women as weak? In most Mario games, Peach's actions amount to crying for Mario's help when she is in trouble, perpetuating the stereotype that women are weak and need to be saved by men, who via that association, are portrayed as strong and intelligent.

From another perspective, Peach is merely a puppet to set the story in motion; the macguffin if you will. Yet, she is presented as an object that needs to be saved in everygame. Young players seeing the same character repeatedly being captured in each game might suggest the character of Peach, thus women, by association, aren't very intelligent.

I realise that not all games perpetuate the objectification of women, but games continually adhere to stereotypes, which misrepresents women (and men for that matter).
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pepharytheworm
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Re: Nerds and Male Privilege

Post by pepharytheworm »

What about all the captured Toads? I swear I have saved over 100 of those buggers and the princess maybe 10 times. The problem with Princess Peach always getting captured is her subjects, those toads make lousy bodygaurds. Or even Mario who has on several occasions let her be kidnapped right in front of him.
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Radical Lanzar
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Re: Nerds and Male Privilege

Post by Radical Lanzar »

dsheinem wrote:haven't read this yet, but here's a follow up: http://kotaku.com/5873885/nerds-and-mal ... -arguments

Outside of saying 'I'm right and everyone else is wrong.' what is this douchebag hoping to do? Stir the wrath of males and say 'I told you so?'.
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harper
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Re: Nerds and Male Privilege

Post by harper »

Girls play video games too?
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