Why I am not a modern gamer.

[dsheinem]

I have to call bullshit on this one. Nintendo, Sega, Atari, etc.

My mistake was not explicitly exempting the hardware publishers, who clearly had a major stake in programming serfs. To my credit, I thought this was obvious.

I am referring to the dozens of smaller developers, who are now usually considered "second party", if not first.

I am not sure what smaller developers you are referring to, since the cost barriers to creating software for the 8 and 16 but systems was quite high in the 1980s and early 1990s and "small developers" were fairly far and few between. Can you give some examples? Again, if you are looking for a time in gaming history where the "little guy" could succeed - well, there's no time even remotely like the present.

[irixith]

I am referring to the dozens of independent developers, who are now usually considered "second party", if not first.

The players and methods have changed, but the game remains the same. Back in the golden age of Nintendo, they forced things like minimum cartridge runs on those developers. Sure, they could "make what they wanted", but they would be out the cost of their cartridges up front. That's a major incentive to produce quality.

It's always been about money, don't try and convince yourself otherwise.

[Not_a_sockpuppet]

Yeah, it's not like there was a flood of boring, generic platformers and beat'em ups in the 90s.

Those were the times, I tell ya!

[Zing]

It's always been about money, don't try and convince yourself otherwise.

Well, how about this thought: it used to be about their money (developer), and now it is about someone else's money? In other words, developers share less of the profits? Developers are, now more than ever, just serfs in the publisher's feudal system? This always existed to an extent, but from my perspective, never as strongly as now.

Think about this, did you ever hear anyone use the term "indie" to refer to a console game before the current generation? Why do we now need this terminology?

I'm just throwing out thoughts.

[Not_a_sockpuppet]

just serfs in the publisher's feudal system? This always existed to an extent, but from my perspective, never as strongly as now.

Excuse me? Nintendo's monopoly banned third parties from working for anyone else but Nintendo in a really illegal situation that was only shut down a decade later.

Quote me a single situation that is as bad as that one because there isn't one.

[noiseredux]

we didn't use the term "indie developers" back then because gamers were far less aware of developers. The publishers got all the credit and glory. Case in point: most Nintendo game end credits don't even feature the real names of the designers.

[ExedExes]

we didn't use the term "indie developers" back then because gamers were far less aware of developers. The publishers got all the credit and glory. Case in point: most Nintendo game end credits don't even feature the real names of the designers.

Whoa, whoa really? When did Nintendo start introducing this practice? I mean I know a lot of the Japanese made games have funny names or nicknames in their end credits, but Nintendo has been doing this?

[noiseredux]

Whoa, whoa really? When did Nintendo start introducing this practice? I mean I know a lot of the Japanese made games have funny names or nicknames in their end credits, but Nintendo has been doing this?

those funny nicknames weren't there to be cute. It was so that another Dev couldn't just read the credits and go hire away a good designer for their team. It was a very unfair practice.

[Zing]

It appears that "Ten Ten" (Takashi Tezuka of Mario and Zelda fame) was always his admitted nickname, so I'm not sure how much that disguised him. We'd have to ask those folks if they were bitter about using nicknames in the credits, so we shouldn't jump to conclusions that it was "unfair". For all we know, they may have used nicknames on their own accord.

[noiseredux]

It appears that "Ten Ten" (Takashi Tezuka of Mario and Zelda fame) was always his admitted nickname, so I'm not sure how much that disguised him. We'd have to ask those folks if they were bitter about using nicknames in the credits, so we shouldn't jump to conclusions that it was "unfair". For all we know, they may have used nicknames on their own accord.

There was an episode of retronauts where they had researched this and said that many companies forced nicknames on their designers. Which to me is very unfair, as it meant that they weren't REALLY getting the credit they deserved. I'm not sure which episode it was, but I'm fairly certain BUNBUN was specifically mentioned.

Retronauts also touched upon this in a later episode talking about a female composer -- but now my memory is cloudy, and I can't think of who it was or what games she worked on.