You can't sue Microsoft either now.

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YoshiEgg25
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Re: You can't sue Microsoft either now.

Post by YoshiEgg25 »

o.pwuaioc wrote:If companies are legally able to ruin the environment if it makes them a profit, is it ok that they do that, too?
This statement is inherently flawed. Pretty much companies "ruin" the environment through emissions of some sort, whether that's burning coal or running a newspaper business. It's the effect on the environment (most importantly locally) that this is important.

My dad works as an environmental consultant. I've been out in the field with him before, probably twelve years ago now, and I remember it like it was yesterday. We were testing to see how a rubber plant's smell affected a nearby neighborhood when residents complained. We checked wind speed and direction and walked around the neighborhood. There was no smell, and it was unlikely there WAS a smell. But the company was sued, and they were forced to leave. My dad's data was ignored.

If this DID affect the surrounding neighborhood (which, as I said, is unlikely), then I would say it's not okay. You're profiting when the surrounding area suffers, and it's downright immoral. But when you're not affecting anyone adversely, who's to say that it's wrong?
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Re: You can't sue Microsoft either now.

Post by Hatta »

dsheinem, that sounds like a perfect recipe for turning a plausible agent for hope and change into yet another tool for the 1%. Work within the system and you become beholden to the system. People who donate money and do you favors expect things in return. There's really nothing that can be done from within the system. I've seen people try to work within the system for the past 30 years, accomplishing nothing. We talked about this before. OWS has done more for the progressive agenda this year than Ralph Nader or Bernie Sanders have done in their entire careers. Our best chance to effect change is to realize that it's been entirely co-opted and lost all legitimacy. It's the war of ideas that matters right now.
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Re: You can't sue Microsoft either now.

Post by dsheinem »

Hatta wrote:dsheinem, that sounds like a perfect recipe for turning a plausible agent for hope and change into yet another tool for the 1%. Work within the system and you become beholden to the system. People who donate money and do you favors expect things in return.
I didn't say "enter the system and start accepting lots of money from people you disagree with". If you aren't going to hold to your moral grounding from inside the system, than how strong can it really be?
There's really nothing that can be done from within the system. I've seen people try to work within the system for the past 30 years, accomplishing nothing.
I've read Howard Zinn and I've studied the history of radical protest, and so I know that change from outside the system can be effective. But I am of the opinion that most of those past models for success are no longer tenable in today's political and cultural climate. The only two examples of successful political movements I can think of in the past 20 years are both right-wing: evangelicals and the tea party. Both of them started as "grass roots" but figured out how to get a seat at the big boy's table and affect actual policy and change. We're worse for it, but they are a hell of a lot better at advancing their agendas and setting the topics of conversation than the left has been since the early 70s.
We talked about this before. OWS has done more for the progressive agenda this year than Ralph Nader or Bernie Sanders have done in their entire careers.
Again, you are probably right - but you are comparing one sad movement to two sad politicians. There aren't any good models here.
Our best chance to effect change is to realize that it's been entirely co-opted and lost all legitimacy. It's the war of ideas that matters right now.
Keep on believing that while the 1% continues to snicker and decide things. You have your "war of ideas," meanwhile those with power will use the instruments at their disposal to do what they've always done: create division, apathy, spectacle, and distraction. Until OWS starts learning how to actually offer solutions and alternatives, fielding candidates, creating caucuses, and developing and courting those who have power to change things they will continue to be almost entirely irrelevant.
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Re: You can't sue Microsoft either now.

Post by noiseredux »

I don't feel like this thread is about XBLA anymore.
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Re: You can't sue Microsoft either now.

Post by Croooow! »

noiseredux wrote:I don't feel like this thread is about XBLA anymore.
I had to double check that this wasn't the credit union thread :? .
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Re: You can't sue Microsoft either now.

Post by MrPopo »

noiseredux wrote:I don't feel like this thread is about XBLA anymore.
I'd be happy to shift the discussion to how we shouldn't have to pay for Live if you'd like.
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Re: You can't sue Microsoft either now.

Post by dsheinem »

noiseredux wrote:I don't feel like this thread is about XBLA anymore.
You keep on playing your games and ignoring the real problems in the world, noise.

THIS. IS. SERIOUS. DISCUSSION.
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Re: You can't sue Microsoft either now.

Post by dsheinem »

MrPopo wrote:
noiseredux wrote:I don't feel like this thread is about XBLA anymore.
I'd be happy to shift the discussion to how we shouldn't have to pay for Live if you'd like.
You are so anti-Microsoft it hurts.
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Re: You can't sue Microsoft either now.

Post by AppleQueso »

dsheinem wrote: THIS. IS. SERIOUS. DISCUSSION.
I'd prefer cereal discussion.

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Re: You can't sue Microsoft either now.

Post by fastbilly1 »

Battle Block Theater still doesnt have a release date, it went from mid 09 to sometime in 2012. Can I sue The Behemoth? The company, not the beast.
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