Whiny topic about MGS4 (plenty of MGS spoilers)

[BoringSupreez]

The longer it's been since I've first played MGS4, the more the luster and hype and awe wears off, the more I think about the story, etc, the less I'm liking this game. The gameplay and graphics are awesome, to be sure, but the rest of it is flawed compared to other entries in the series.

1. The whole mess concerning Liquid's arm.
Fans can't agree what's canon here. Some say Ocelot had Liquid's arm attached to him, leading to Liquid possessing Ocelot. Later, Ocelot had it removed and replaced by a prosthetic, and just pretended to be possessed. Another theory is that Ocelot was pretending the whole time; he was never possessed. The excuse for Cam Clarke's voice being used in MGS2 is that it was used for the player's benefit so that he would know Ocelot was pretending to be Liquid; meaning that Ocelot in reality sounded the same way he did in MSG4. And the final theory I've heard is that originally Ocelot was being possessed in MGS2 (MGS2 was originally going to be the last in the series), but Kojima retconned it so that he was actually pretending. Ugh.

Personally, I really liked the possession thing, and wish it had been kept, whichever way is canon. I really like Liquid's voice, and it was disappointing to only ever hear Ocelot.

2. Crude humor ramped up to 11.
MGS has always had some crude humor, but MGS4 takes it too far. It's like the difference between a sprinkling of salt and a teaspoon of salt. Every time Drebin shows up, he graces the audience with his burping symphony, even if it ruins the moment. There are like three instances of people crapping their pants or being caught taking a dump.

3. Bye bye supernatural phenomena.
The MGS games feature supernatural phenomena frequently, except MGS4 (and Metal Gear/Metal Gear 2, but those hardly count). MGS1 had Vulcan Raven's Eskimo magic. MGS2 had Vamp, and Fortune's moment at the end of the game. Plus Liquid's arm, of course. And MGS3, boy did it have a lot of this stuff! Every member of the Cobras demonstrated at least a little bit of the unexplainable.

MGS4 explained everything away with nanomachines. Liquid possessing Ocelot? Oh yeah, Liquid's nanomachines were messing with Ocelot's mind. Vamp's immortality? Quick-healing nanomachines. Everything cool that happened in the past that was brought up was attributed to the miracle of nanomachines. That's like if they made a new Indiana Jones movie which explained the rapid aging of that one Nazi in The Last Crusade away with a deadly virus, or said that the evil Thuggee priest in Temple of Doom was able to open people's chests because he worked out and used a special flesh-melting lotion. Boo...

4. No more MGS theme music.
I really, really like the MGS theme, introduced in MGS2 and used to great effect in MGS3. It is absent from MGS4. I heard it wasn't used because it was too similar to some already existing piece. I say that Konami should have bought the rights to the other work, just so they could keep using it.

5. Story was almost really great, but then flubs the landing with absurdity.
Meryl almost died in chapter three, if you remember. It really looked like she wasn't going to make it, but then at the last second she revives. C'mon, Kojima, have some guts. It's the supposedly last epic entry in Solid Snake's story. Feel free to kill off characters if it makes the story better!

Also, the movies toward the end. I would have preferred that Snake's fate be more of a mystery, just leave it with Otacon's explanation to Sunny: something like "he's gone on a long trip" or something like that. It would have worked really well, I think. And Big Boss coming back? He should have been the biomort thrown into the fire, and Solidus should have died in MGS2 like he originally did. And after playing MGS3 and Portable Ops, it seems strange that BB's voice changed so much.

How could Metal Gear Rex possibly have been operable? Anyone who's played MGS1 recently will remember how beat up it was by Snake. No way it could be used to beat Metal Gear Ray.

Naomi Hunter was over-sexualized, I think. In the original MGS, she was plain and wore a sweater., but in MGS4 her cleavage is always prominent, and being shoved into the camera. Annoying, and inconsistent with her original character.

And then there's Johnny. He feels so tacked-on at the last minute. "Oh yeah, I was totally a guard in MGS1! You guys pushed me around just like you do now! What a coincidence!" I don't understand why his personality changes so much the moment he takes off his mask, either.


MGS4 should have been a serious story about a dying hero, more serious than the other entries were. Instead, we are treated to bathroom humor, a ridiculous plot that focuses way too heavily on nanomachines, and cheaps out by taking the cliche paths whenever crisis strikes.

Now, I'm not saying that MGS4 is a bad game or anything. The gameplay is possibly the best in the series, and the graphics still look good today. The story did have a few great moments, such as Snake's crawl through the microwave tunnel. But, compared to the others, the story is just weak. I'd almost rather pretend that it's not canon, 'cause MGS2 was so much cooler before MGS4. I expected MGS2: Part 2, and what I got was totally different. I think MGS3 is the best in the series, personally. Nailed the perfect combinations and amounts of everything.

[EVOLghost]

Hmmm You ahve some valid points. Personally I feel the same way...almost exactly. The first time I beat it, I was happy, but then I play it again, and reflected on the story more and realized what the fanbase had done. We pushed this on Kojima...and this is what we get. We wanted answers, Kojima provided...even though a lot of it was BS. I feel that Kojima was pressured and wasn't given enough time to think things through properly. it just seems that many fans wanted answers to things Kojima basically didn't have a plan for, and just to make things easier, Kojima just decided to tie things from all the games. MGS3, I believe, should not have had as many references as it did. Para-medic and Sigint are patriots? LOL!. Bringing Eva back? LOL! Raiden is a ninja cyborg? LOLOLOLOLOLOL! As bad as it is story-wise, I still love it(my inner fanboy is showing). I mean, I believe 3 was his best story wise...next to 1. And while 2....well that just felt more like a recycled movie plot....
And as for your paranormal thing, your on to something. But I still felt the paranormal presence(Screaming Matis/Pyscho Mantis).

[lwcook]

MGS4 story was fan service, plain and simple. It's not the most cohesive or perfect written tale, but I will admit it was a hell of a ride that first play-through.

It's kinda like a Michael Bay movie; the first time watching you're like "OMG that was AWESOME!" but the second time through all you can see is gaping plot holes.

[jay_red]

I can see where you are coming from with your points, but I still think that it was one of the best games this generation. I thoroughly enjoyed it the first time I played it through, and just as much the second time.

You brought up some points that I never even noticed, like with Ocelot's voice. I also agree that it should have left with what Otacon said to sunny, I swear I teared up when he said "he's had a hard life, he needs some time to rest" that should have ended it IMO.

I do also agree that 3 was the best in the series, but I like to just take them all in as a whole and enjoy the series for what it is. I am excited to play Peace Walker since the HD collection came out, and I can finally see what all the hype is about.

[fvgazi]

Personally, I didn't mind Akiba crapping his pants. I thought it was hilarious (i have a simple mind). It was also woven into the story near the end of the game!

[AppleQueso]

Kojima never intended to make any MGS games beyond 2. He he pretty much only made 3 and 4 because of fan demand.

He got around having to make a sequel to 2 by making 3 a prequel which turned out great, but yeah. I think that goes a long way to explain how completely messy and asspull the story of MGS4 is. I still like the game a lot and think any fan of the series should still play it, but it's easily the worst of the series.

[o.pwuaioc]

That's like if they made a new Indiana Jones movie which explained the rapid aging of that one Nazi in The Last Crusade away with a deadly virus, or said that the evil Thuggee priest in Temple of Doom was able to open people's chests because he worked out and used a special flesh-melting lotion. Boo...

Or like Lucas coming out with new Star Wars that explained the force through genetically inherited midichlorians?

[Xeogred]

That's like if they made a new Indiana Jones movie which explained the rapid aging of that one Nazi in The Last Crusade away with a deadly virus, or said that the evil Thuggee priest in Temple of Doom was able to open people's chests because he worked out and used a special flesh-melting lotion. Boo...

Or like Lucas coming out with new Star Wars that explained the force through genetically inherited midichlorians?

MGS4 is weak compared to the others, but I think comparing Kojima to Lucas is a bit of a low blow.
(rewatched all those Plinkett reviews recently myself, good times).

[BoringSupreez]

That's like if they made a new Indiana Jones movie which explained the rapid aging of that one Nazi in The Last Crusade away with a deadly virus, or said that the evil Thuggee priest in Temple of Doom was able to open people's chests because he worked out and used a special flesh-melting lotion. Boo...

Or like Lucas coming out with new Star Wars that explained the force through genetically inherited midichlorians?

MGS4 is weak compared to the others, but I think comparing Kojima to Lucas is a bit of a low blow.
(rewatched all those Plinkett reviews recently myself, good times).

The difference between Lucas and Kojima is that Kojima is still capable of making great things. Just look at Peace Walker.

[markeconrad]

I only played through once as I traded my PS3 for a Wii with extras after, but I'll have to replay and give my thoughts. I do remember being satisfied with the filling of overall plot holes, and it just being an all around well put together game though.