Thoughts on Xbox 360

Gaming on the Playstation and Xbox Platforms
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Original_Name
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Re: Thoughts on Xbox 360

Post by Original_Name »

avrame wrote:
CFFJR wrote:*snip*
Original_Name wrote:*snip*
God I love this site :D . It's not every day that you find people online that resort to arguing with the sole intention of defaming whatever they don't like. I'll humbly bow out from any chance of starting a flamewar, but I'll say 'good on ya!' for some nice constructive criticism.

I completely agree with CFFJR in the sense that it's a game system, just have fun with it. If you don't have it, and don't plan to get it, no need to go further than stating that.
...in all honesty, I don't think anyone was flaming or even really arguing in here. I think it's widely known that I'm a massive current-gen curmudgeon, and I'd like to think that my reasons are rational and justified -- just as you believe about your own opinions. We were having a constructive conversation in which I rationally and graciously acknowledged a valid point of yours, yet maintained the majority of my original opinion simply because my feelings on the matter had largely not changed. I didn't mean to make it out like people are stupid for supporting the Xbox 360, but because of the nature of capitalism, when a service you deem questionable succeeds and persists, you have to question the motives of individual consumers.

I thought that this thread was about our thoughts on the Xbox 360, so I gave mine. It's not just that I don't like the Xbox 360, it's that I think it's our role as consumers to question the motivations of certain companies and scrutinize the effect that products have on our industry. For instance, even though the Wii doesn't appeal to me, I don't give the console much serious criticism because I don't think that it has a negative impact on the industry -- I just personally think Nintendo are sissies... however, this is largely irrelevant, so I mostly abstain from mentioning it. I'm not slandering the 360's good name just because it doesn't appeal to me -- I'm voicing my concerns about a business model that I find to be questionable in ways which affect the industry as a whole.
Last edited by Original_Name on Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thoughts on Xbox 360

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CFFJR wrote:I can tell you this, if the platform a game appeared on mattered to me that much, I would have given up on games the moment Sonic the Hedgehog appeared on a Nintendo system.

I expect more from Racketboy. We're here to fucking play games. Its silly to expect integrity from companies that act to make money, one way or another, and its important to remember that its the developers of games (who are still out to make money in the end) who are the ones with a passion for what they deliver. If they make a worthy game, it doesn't matter one damn bit what means they use to release it. What does matter is supporting the effort.
I have the utmost respect for every statement you made here, and I applaud you for your well thought-out statements. The thing is, I don't understand why it should be one thing to expect integrity from developers, but another thing entirely to expect integrity from console manufacturers. Even if it's ridiculous to demand integrity, I'll continue to do so. I'm here to support the interactive arts -- call that deluded or pretentious if you like, but I can't help but feel scorn at the notion that I have to support corporations which have, in my view, done little but dilute the gaming gene pool in order to experience a handful of niche titles. I recognize that I'm in the minority here -- I just don't understand why the majority of long-time gamers seem to be in this weird middle-ground, where they overwhelmingly state that this generation is unequivocally the worst in gaming history, yet they continue to throw their money into the pockets of the culprits.

If I could buy a console used and every cent I spent on games went to the developers and publishers, I would be all-in for gaming this generation. Obviously, that's not the case -- but I don't want to support Sony or Microsoft's presence in gaming at all. I'm not in their better interests, so why should they be in mine? If so many people dropped Sega after the 32X, I don't see why it should be controversial that I've dropped Sony and Microsoft after a string of business decisions which I disagree with. But to reiterate, I recognize that I am clearly in the minority here.
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Re: Thoughts on Xbox 360

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Original_Name wrote: I have the utmost respect for every statement you made here, and I applaud you for your well thought-out statements. The thing is, I don't understand why it should be one thing to expect integrity from developers, but another thing entirely to expect integrity from console manufacturers. Even if it's ridiculous to demand integrity, I'll continue to do so. I'm here to support the interactive arts -- call that deluded or pretentious if you like, but I can't help but feel scorn at the notion that I have to support corporations which have, in my view, done little but dilute the gaming gene pool in order to experience a handful of niche titles. I recognize that I'm in the minority here -- I just don't understand why the majority of long-time gamers seem to be in this weird middle-ground, where they overwhelmingly state that this generation is unequivocally the worst in gaming history, yet they continue to throw their money into the pockets of the culprits.

If I could buy a console used and every cent I spent on games went to the developers and publishers, I would be all-in for gaming this generation. Obviously, that's not the case -- but I don't want to support Sony or Microsoft's presence in gaming at all. I'm not in their better interests, so why should they be in mine? If so many people dropped Sega after the 32X, I don't see why it should be controversial that I've dropped Sony and Microsoft after a string of business decisions which I disagree with. But to reiterate, I recognize that I am clearly in the minority here.
I want to say that I hope you don't think I was attacking you. I have a lot of respect for you and the things you've said here on Racketboy. And after reading your post here, its clear to me that we don't disagree on this as much as I had thought.

To clarify my position a bit, I appreciate that you're pointing to this generation as a whole being a problem. My annoyance comes when people choose one company, bubble over with rage at how horrible they are, and then point to the other guys as though they're some shining example of how to do things right.

I'll be the first guy to say that I don't like where the industry as a whole is going right now, but for anyone to claim that one company is more responsible than another is ignorant and strikes me as fanboyism.

And its that very middle ground gamer you're referring to is the most hypocritically vocal about this subject. As I said in my last post, if so many gamers really had such a problem with the way things are, they wouldn't spend their money on it. Rather, they would take the road you have and choose not to support it at all. Which is a perfectly fine position to take. But they don't do that. Instead, they yell and scream as gamers love to do and immediately defeat themselves by feeding the beast with their wallets. Either the available systems have something to offer them and they simply don't want to admit it, or they have extremely poor judgment when it comes to spending their money.

As for your choosing not to support Sony and Microsoft, you're right that you're in the minority, but I don't think its weird or pretentious at all. I would never expect you to support them, and you have good reason not to. At least you've taken a stand, and decided where the line was for you. I respect that. If that means you can't get behind the games themselves either, then so be it.

I don't have any love for the companies themselves. But here's the thing. The industry has changed, and call me a pessimist, but its never going to go back to the way it was. The current model makes big money, and as much as I'd like it to be all about the art and the fun, the truth is it never will be. At least not on a larger scale than indie development.

Having said that though, I can't allow myself to walk away from the games. Whatever their motivations, there are some wonderful games being released in this generation, and while I might not like it, I'm willing to give in on some things in order to experience those games.

I love games too much to deny myself access to them based on principal. I respect the idea and in other areas of my life I've done the same. But in this case I simply can't. Maybe that's irresponsible of me, I don't know. But I don't pretend that its anything other than what it is.

I hope I've explained myself a bit better. Stuff like this comes much easier to me in actual conversation rather than back and forth writing on the internet.
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Re: Thoughts on Xbox 360

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Wow. There's a lot of misinformation in this thread. I got to page 4 and had enough.

Anybody paying full price for Live is a moron. There is plenty of websites out there that can get you legit codes for half the price. The most I've ever paid for Live is £27. RRP is £37.99 in this country. If you're savvy and look for the deals (and time it right, remember a code will just add on to your existing time balance) you can get a year for next to nothing. I got my current year (and a code for next year) for £10 each. I did that by buying a few copies of Gears of War 3 with the 13 month membership code and selling the games/codes separately. £10 for a year of XBL? bargain, based purely on the Gold benefits for discounts. I'll save £10 in discounted games in a few months if the offers suite me. It's a no brainer. Compared to the clusterfuck of Wii and PSN online I know what i'd rather have...

That's all I'm going to address for now, but I'll be back later to address some more misinformation.
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Re: Thoughts on Xbox 360

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And then Niode reverts to typical name calling!

Anyways I like what CFFJR said here and there. In the end it's the games that matter, I could careless about X console. The Wii, 360, and PS3 are all equally flawed to me and whatnot.
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Re: Thoughts on Xbox 360

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Xeogred wrote:And then Niode reverts to typical name calling!

Anyways I like what CFFJR said here and there. In the end it's the games that matter, I could careless about X console. The Wii, 360, and PS3 are all equally flawed to me and whatnot.
What? You are a moron if you pay full price for xbox live, therefore the price of xbox live is not an issue. You're a moron if you pay over the odds for anything. Simple as.
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Re: Thoughts on Xbox 360

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Niode wrote:
Xeogred wrote:And then Niode reverts to typical name calling!

Anyways I like what CFFJR said here and there. In the end it's the games that matter, I could careless about X console. The Wii, 360, and PS3 are all equally flawed to me and whatnot.
What? You are a moron if you pay full price for xbox live, therefore the price of xbox live is not an issue. You're a moron if you pay over the odds for anything. Simple as.
You are a bigger moron than me for calling everyone that plays online on their 360's morons.
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Re: Thoughts on Xbox 360

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Niode wrote:You are a moron if you pay full price for xbox live [strikeout]therefore the price of xbox live is not an issue. You're a moron if you pay over the odds for anything.[/strikeout] Simple as.
There we go, much better.

Seriously though, you can't come up with a better way to express your point than to straight up call people morons?
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Re: Thoughts on Xbox 360

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Plus we already covered this. Hell, let me quote my own thoughts on the stupidity of Live. But did I have to attack others?
Xeogred wrote:
Weekend_Warrior wrote:Yeah. I'm at the point now where I find the XBLA and indie games a lot more interesting than the standard Xbox 360 disc releases. Plus, they're a lot easier on my wallet.
Only problem is there's just so many of them coming out now.

Anyways as someone who hasn't been able to afford Live for a year or so, I think it's pretty BS I can't download most demo's anymore because I'm not a Gold member. DEMO's folks. Then I can just turn on my PS3 and get them for free from that, only problem is the 360 often gets demo's a bit faster so that's kind of annoying.
Xeogred wrote:
MrPopo wrote:I wish people would stop bringing up MMO subscription fees as an excuse for Live having a subscription fee. With an MMO you're playing on their servers, so they need a big farm for the player base. And MMOs develop a ton of content in between expansions (at least, the good ones do). Your money pays for both. Live is a peer to peer matching service. You're comparing apples to oranges.
I don't get it either. You're basically pointlessly paying for a secondary ISP to play games on one specific platform. It's silly.
So there you go. Get up to date with the thread, moron.
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Re: Thoughts on Xbox 360

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KillerJuan77 wrote:
Niode wrote:
Xeogred wrote:And then Niode reverts to typical name calling!

Anyways I like what CFFJR said here and there. In the end it's the games that matter, I could careless about X console. The Wii, 360, and PS3 are all equally flawed to me and whatnot.
What? You are a moron if you pay full price for xbox live, therefore the price of xbox live is not an issue. You're a moron if you pay over the odds for anything. Simple as.
You are a bigger moron than me for calling everyone that plays online on their 360's morons.
What? That doesn't even make sense. I can't see the issue here. It's pretty straight forward to get Live for next to nothing, weigh that up against the discounts you get for being a Gold subscriber and you've saved money on top of the subscription. All I see in here are people using the subscription fee as a scapegoat. Rather than addressing the benefits of Live as a service.

Also, I've never heard of demo's being limited to gold members, except for time limited release. After that they're free for all. Besides every single live arcade game has a free trial. Can't say the same for PSN, maybe 40% of games have a trial, if you're lucky?

Compare the network performance you get from Xbox Live to PSN and they're leagues apart, you could be waiting hours for a demo to download from PSN (and then have to wait for it to install afterwards - seriously Sony, you can't figure out something that your competitors have been doing for years?) the same demo can be downloaded in minutes on 360 and be playable right away.

Cross platform chat, not only can I talk to people not playing the same game as me, you can chat to people not even playing the same system as you. I talk to people on MSN all the time with the chat pad on 360. Can't do that on PS3.

If Sony/Nintendo could offer the same service as Microsoft does with live for free then it would have happened by now. It hasn't.

Don't even bother comparing Live to Steam. One is a closed platform the other isn't. If Valve started charging for Steam, a competitor would arrive within hours that offered the same for nothing and everyone would jump ship. I mean, you can use Xlink Kai or whatever for free, but does it offer the same service? Not even close. Same problem with PSN, it's not even close to offering the same service.
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