Famicom disk newbie

[flojocabron]

here's some more info on the system.

http://videogamesarerad.com/2010/12/06/ ... sk-system/

http://famicomblog.blogspot.com/search/ ... k%20System

[ApolloBoy]

This makes me mad! To think, all these years I could have played Castlevania 3 in all of it's audio glory but some bean counters in NOA didn't want to spend one penny on one resistor?!?!?

CV III doesn't even have expansion audio, only the Japanese version does; CV III was reprogrammed to make use of the NES's existing audio capabilities.

That would have been an expansion port for the North American version of the FDS, which was scapped in favor of simply porting the games to mask rom cartridges.

I think it's been established that the American FDS would've used the cartridge port and not the expansion port though. IIRC, the expansion port doesn't have the lines necessary for the FDS to work.

[da66en]

This makes me mad! To think, all these years I could have played Castlevania 3 in all of it's audio glory but some bean counters in NOA didn't want to spend one penny on one resistor?!?!?

CV III doesn't even have expansion audio, only the Japanese version does; CV III was reprogrammed to make use of the NES's existing audio capabilities.

I know that. But If the NES had the abilities to use external audio, than I'm 100% confident that Konami would have used a custom sound chip in the NES version of CV3 just as they had done with the Japanese version of CV3.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

This makes me mad! To think, all these years I could have played Castlevania 3 in all of it's audio glory but some bean counters in NOA didn't want to spend one penny on one resistor?!?!?

It's not as simple as that.

In the US, all NES games were manufactured by Nintendo themselves, regardless of the developer. Capcom games were made by Nintendo. Acclaim games were made by Nintendo. So yes, Konami games were made by Nintendo too. This is why almost all NES games are in gray shells, and came with Nintendo branded dust sleeves.

With Nintendo being the sole manufacturer of games for their console, as you'd imagine, they made a killing with that deal. Third party companies had to pay them for the manufacturing and licensing, and they were at the mercy of Nintendo for how many copies they could order, hence the shortages of Konami games for much of 1987.

The situation in Japan was different. If you were a big enough developer, you manufactured your own games. Examples include Jaleco, Namco, Bandai, Capcom, and Konami, among others.

After 1986, it was clear that the Famicom was woefully underpowered to keep up with its competitors such as the MSX and Sega SG-3000. The problem lay in how the system was limited in how little data it could access at a time. To solve this, Nintendo invented bank switching chips called Memory Management Controllers, or more commonly MMCs.

In Japan, third prty companies were free to expand on Nintendo's MMCs and many Famicom developers produced their own, most notably Konami with their VRC series. Their VRC2 and VRC4 were on par and in some ways exceeded Nintendo's MMC3 chip which is in the vast majority of NES games made after 1988.

In the case of Akumajou Densetsu, that game used its own Memory Management Controller called the Konami VRC6. The VRC6 would allow complex calculations, bank switching, and three additional sound channels. This is why Akumajou Densetsu sounds so much better than most other Famicom games.

When it came time for Castlevania 3 on the NES, Konami had to have Nintendo make their game, and that meant that it would have to use a Nintendo Memory Management Controller. Bu this time, Nintendo had developed the MMC5, which itself is an impressive chip. The main difference between it and the VRC6 is the loss of the sawtooth channel, which really pips up the sound in the Famicom version.

That difference along doesn't account for the dramatic difference in sound quality though, so its likely that Nintendo ignored the extra sound capabilities of the MMC5 entirely and just ported the audio to the 2A03.

Even still, if you stereo separate the NES's default four sound channels, Castlevania 3 (the NES one) is one of the few games that sounds amazing in stereo.

Didn't that decision have something to do with mono sound being the standard in the US at the time? Or am I connecting two unrelated things?

You're connecting unrelated topics. Mono vs stereo has nothing to do with anything.
Both the Famicom and NES are mono systems, but the square waves and triangle/noise waves are not produced by the same pin. They're only mixed together in mono when they need to be amplified and sent through RF or RCA. Therefore, its possible to intercept them before that happens and build a new path for two of the four channels.

I think it's been established that the American FDS would've used the cartridge port and not the expansion port though. IIRC, the expansion port doesn't have the lines necessary for the FDS to work.

Really? it's been a while since I read up on that...can you link me to your source of info? I was sure that the mysterious NES-001 expansion port was to be used for a beta of the FDS.

[da66en]

Two more newbie questions...

If I make your mod to my NES and 60-72 adapter, can I play Japan CV3 on my US NES and get the extra audio channels?

Does FDS work on AV version of Famicon?

I know you don't recommend an FDS because of reliability... But it's for the fun of collecting. Also I'm pretty handy at fixing electronics.

[ChuChu Flamingo]

FDS will work on new AV famicom. That is the setup I am currently using.

If you do get a drive, please do not adjust the magnet head. I state this because it is never the problem unless someone messed with it before. Calibrating it back is basically impossible.

The main problem with FDS are the belts. They like to snap and break.

Here is a great guide if you do get one

http://www.famicomdisksystem.com/tutori ... djustment/

[Satoshi_Matrix]

If I make your mod to my NES and 60-72 adapter, can I play Japan CV3 on my US NES and get the extra audio channels?

Yes. You'll also need to add a single 47k resistor across pins 3(or was it 4? I don't remember at the moment) and pin 9 of the unused expansion port.

Does FDS work on the AV Famicom?

Yes, the FDS works perfectly on the AV Famicom.

I know you don't recommend an FDS because of reliability... But it's for the fun of collecting. Also I'm pretty handy at fixing electronics.

I'm no slotch at electronics repair either, but the FDS can truly be a nightmare to deal with when something goes wrong. As I stated, the disks themselves corrupt on their own at random, and a corrupted disk is an unplayable disk. Add to that, the proprietary disk belts break easily and often, and are becoming increasingly rarer and more expensive.

Just like ChuChu Flamingo said, calibrating the magnet heads on the FDS is nearly impossible, but it IS sometimes necessary do that when you preform repairs on the system. this is another reason I hate the FDS hardware as its extremely difficult to repair not if but WHEN it stops working.

the FDS is cool to have for sure, but the reliability and durability just isn't there. I've bought even NEW SEALED FDS games from Japan that were dead on arrival. The second time that happened, it was the last straw and I declared I was finished with the FDS.

If you want to experience them, you can play them on an NES Powerpak from Retrozone, and if you use the Powerpak, all you need to mod on your NES toaster is the aforementioned 47k resistor along the expansion port to get full expansion audio for both Famicom and FDS games via the Powerpak.

Oh and while you're in there, disable the NES-10 lockout chip if you haven't already. It doesn't serve any useful function whatsoever. Just clip pin 4 and solder it to ground. Never see a blinking power light again.

[da66en]

If you want to experience them, you can play them on an NES Powerpak from Retrozone, and if you use the Powerpak, all you need to mod on your NES toaster is the aforementioned 47k resistor along the expansion port to get full expansion audio for both Famicom and FDS games via the Powerpak.

This is implying that the Powerpak simulates the audio chip or has an audio chip?

[ApolloBoy]

If you want to experience them, you can play them on an NES Powerpak from Retrozone, and if you use the Powerpak, all you need to mod on your NES toaster is the aforementioned 47k resistor along the expansion port to get full expansion audio for both Famicom and FDS games via the Powerpak.

This is implying that the Powerpak simulates the audio chip or has an audio chip?

It emulates all the expansion audio chips except for the MMC5 and VRC7, which aren't implemented yet.

Really? it's been a while since I read up on that...can you link me to your source of info? I was sure that the mysterious NES-001 expansion port was to be used for a beta of the FDS.

Xious on the Famicom World forums mentioned that he had been experimenting with the NES expansion port and determined that it wouldn't work with the FDS. The original thread is here but I'll quote what he said as well:

There is no need to attach the FDS to the EXP port and in fact, that would be impossible. This was never Nintendo's plan for using the port, though other devices, such as the Keyboard and 3-D system would've attached there

I have done a deal of work with uses of the EXP ports, both on the NES and on the FC, and the most logical expansion use for the NES (at the time of its release) would've been a computer kit, with a keyboard and tape-drive, to match the Sharp-Hudson BASIC kit of the Famicom.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

This is implying that the Powerpak simulates the audio chip or has an audio chip?

Yeah, the Powerpak uses an FPGA to perfectly emulate nearly every expansion audio chip made save for the two most advanced mappers, Nintendo's Memory Management Controller 5 and Konami's VCR7 which was only used in a JRPG called Lagrange Point. The FPGA can do them, they're just not implemented yet.