Inazuma wrote:*woosh*
what?
Systems you don't like.
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noiseredux
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Re: Systems you don't like.
I dont like any system or any game...they rule me 
If you can see the future while remembering the past, you may just have control of the present.
Re: Systems you don't like.
noiseredux wrote:Inazuma wrote:*woosh*
what?
My original comment about this was a joke. I said the opposite of what I meant to say on purpose. You didn't realize it, so I made the woosh sound because the joke went over your head.
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Balasubbie
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Re: Systems you don't like.
Anyways, on a less contentious note.......I've never been a fan of the original Xbox, as I've mentioned elsewhere. It failed as a console, but Microsoft just has so much money they can make anything successful, it established itself without no finesse. In retrospect, its life seems to have been one big marketing lead-in for its juggernaut younger sibling, the 360.
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noiseredux
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Re: Systems you don't like.
Sweet! First off, I like Coca-Cola better than Pepsi. Pepsi with Lime is alright, though.
No I never said that, I never picked random games based off the names, I went though the games one at a time A-Z, I was at it for a good 2/3 days[/quote]
Yeah, I did make an assumption. Still, considering the amount of games, what I am guessing (err... assuming) you've done is still not spent much quality time with any or many individual games? Is that a bad assumption? Considering that, from the very beginning, the PC Engine was intended to be a joint cart/CD system and marketed with CDs at the primary medium for the majority of its time, you really are missing over half of the titles.
Some are arcade ports... but, that is the same for the NES, MD, SNES, PS1, Saturn, PS2, DC, etc. The entire point of a console is to be able to play those games at home. I mean, why even bother if all you are going to do is emulate? If playing an arcade shoot 'em up is your goal, and you want to play Gradius, then why both with anything except the arcade version? Accept a console for what it is, which is the PCE in this case; a home console that lasted from about 1987-1995 or so that has a good number of arcade ports.
Considering that, AND the console-only shooters, the PCE shooter library really IS very good. I mean, the only things to compare to are the MD and SNES libraries. Just like any console, there is some crap (you did try Deep Blue, right?). Let's look at the offerings:
On the MD you have stuff like: Thunder Force III&IV, MUSHA, Zero Wing, Air Buster, Biohazard Battle, Gleylancer, Tatsujin/Truxton, Granada, Fire Shark, Eliminate Down, Forgotten Worlds, Dangerous Seed, Trouble Shooter, Sagaia/Darius II, Atomic Robo-kid, Raiden, Lords of Thunder (Sega CD), Bari Arm (Sega CD), Silpheed (Sega CD), etc.
I italicized the FEW vertical shooters. It is a pathetically small selection, although MUSHA is definitely nice. Tatsujin is good, too. TFIII, TFIV, Gleylancer, and Eliminate Down are the stand-out horis in my eyes.
Now, I have bolded the shooters that are on BOTH consoles. About HALF or so of the MD shooters are also on the PCE. Guess what? For the majority, they are BETTER on the PCE. Some are comparable. Some are just... different, like Atomic Robo Kid with way better sprites on the PCE, but... hey, MD has better parallax... . Come to think of it, that is often the case; not much for parallax on the PCE, but larger sprites and overall better graphics on the PCE. Every bolded game above illustrates that.
So, yes, the MD does have a decent horizontal shooter library, but not many verticals. For the games on both systems, the PCE ones are usually better except for a less parallax on the PCE. Do not forget that on the PCE CD, there often IS parallax.
Now, the SNES vs. PCE:
The SNES has stuff like Super R-Type, R-Type III, Gradius III, three Parodius games, Super Aleste, Area 88/UN Squadron, Axelay, Darius Twin, Raiden, Pop 'n Twinbee, Thunder Spirits, etc.
So, there is Super R-Type and III on the SNES. The PCE has the original. I am not alone in saying that the original is the best. However, I do not debate that III is very nice. It does fall into the same trap that Castlevania IV did, by acting a bit as a display for the SNES graphical tricks. However, yes, III is good. If you like it better than the original, that is cool. We can call it even, I guess.
Gradius III on the SNES, Gradius I and II on the PCE. Well, all are great! I prefer II over I and III, but... again, call it even if you want.
Parodius Da! is good on both systems, but I say a bit better on the SNES. Plus the next two Parodius games are on the SFC. So, SNES wins there. Super Aleste on the SNES is comparable to Gunhed/Blazing Lazers, Super Star Soldier, Final Soldier, Soldier Blade, Spriggan, Star Parodier, and other games on the PCE. Yes, Super Aleste is great, but you have a bunch of similar and GREAT games on the PCE. Nothing can come near the combo that is Gunhed/Super Star Soldier/Final Soldier/Soldier Blade. NOTHING. You have one on the SNES verses a bunch that are that great on the PCE. Area 88 and Axelay on the SNES are wonderful. No debate. Darius Twin and Raiden both are much better represented on the PCE (AND MD, haha). Pop 'n Twinbee on the SNES vs. Detana Twinbee on the PCE. Both are great. If you go to the SNES for Thunder Spirits, you are a fool. Go play TFIII on the MD, which is comparable to Gate of Thunder on the PCE (I prefer GoT, but no denying that TFIII is great).
Yeah, some quality on the SNES, but... not a lot of quantity.
Then, the PCE has some AWESOME exclusives. Gate of Thunder, Spriggan (and the sequal), Download (and the sequal), Terraforming, Magical Chase, Air Zonk, Super Air Zonk, Blazing Lazers/Gunhed, Super Star Soldier, Final Soldier, Soldier Blade, Macross 2036, Sylphia, Sapphire, 1941: Counter Attack, Aldynes, and a lot more. I really don't think it is fair to call them clones. If you do, but then praise something like R-Type III (which is a "clone", in your words, of the memorization-type shooter), then I question where you are coming from.
The shoot 'em up rundown:
MD: lots of good stuff, but not a lot of great and really lacking in verticals.
SNES: not a lot of quantity, but there is some high quality there.
PCE: tons of quantity and tons of quality.
PCE wins easily. SNES second. MD third (but very very close!).
Where did I say that?
The very fact that you don't know that you said that says volumes about you having judged a system without having known much about it.
If you have only tried HuCard games on an emulator, then you are missing more than half the library of PCE games. The CD format became the STANDARD (unlike the Sega Mega CD, where it was an after-thought). You literally have not seen over half the PCE games. By missing that, you are missing the games with the high quality sound, graphics and some of the top overall games that people praise the PCE for. It is the equivalent of saying, "I don't much care for the SNES, but have only tried the games that came out in 1993 and earlier."
You are missing the point here. I touched on it just above, which is that the CD format actually became the standard format for the PC Engine before the half-way point of its shelf-life. The top A-class games generally came out for the CD, and you have not even tried them. It was meant to be like that since the PC Engine was still being designed.
The Mega CD was always just an afterthought by Sega to compete with the PC Engine (NOT the SNES, although it had to be marketed like that in the west). Sega was never intending to have the CD format be their primary MD format. They kept the focus on cartridges. As a result, if you stuck with the MD/Genesis, you didn't miss out on too much. On the other hand, if you didn't go CD with the PCE, you did not have access to the top titles at all.
Basically, think of the PC Engine as the Duo. Do not limit yourself to HuCards.
It has more to do with you basing your opinion on it without having fully looked at it. I mean, you claim its shoot 'em up library was not that great. That is insane. If you had spent time with the top games, both on HuCard and CD, and still had the same conclusion, that would be cool. Likewise, if you said that you love platformers and beat 'em ups and did not dig the PCE lots, then that makes total sense. Personally, I find the SNES and MD platformers to be better, and the PCE beat 'em up (singular) to be well overshadowed by the Streets of Rage, Final Fight and Golden Axe series (yes, Golden Axe I is on the PCE, but it really does suck). Likewise with RPGs. Unless you don't mind playing them in Japanese, your selection is limited on the PCE.
So, you've gone through a few random games based on trying out some titles you recongized the names of, only exposed yourself to less than half the library, and decided you didn't like the console?
No I never said that, I never picked random games based off the names, I went though the games one at a time A-Z, I was at it for a good 2/3 days[/quote]
Yeah, I did make an assumption. Still, considering the amount of games, what I am guessing (err... assuming) you've done is still not spent much quality time with any or many individual games? Is that a bad assumption? Considering that, from the very beginning, the PC Engine was intended to be a joint cart/CD system and marketed with CDs at the primary medium for the majority of its time, you really are missing over half of the titles.
If I though the PCE shooter libary was good then I wouldn't complain about it. A lot of the shooters I played felt like clones of better games, were arcade ports (whicjh I can easily play on meme), very slow paced, or just plain boring with the challange coming from how many enemies can be shoved into the screen, most of these enemines just fly onto the screen in generic patterns normally zig-zags or circules and never fire back.
Some are arcade ports... but, that is the same for the NES, MD, SNES, PS1, Saturn, PS2, DC, etc. The entire point of a console is to be able to play those games at home. I mean, why even bother if all you are going to do is emulate? If playing an arcade shoot 'em up is your goal, and you want to play Gradius, then why both with anything except the arcade version? Accept a console for what it is, which is the PCE in this case; a home console that lasted from about 1987-1995 or so that has a good number of arcade ports.
Considering that, AND the console-only shooters, the PCE shooter library really IS very good. I mean, the only things to compare to are the MD and SNES libraries. Just like any console, there is some crap (you did try Deep Blue, right?). Let's look at the offerings:
On the MD you have stuff like: Thunder Force III&IV, MUSHA, Zero Wing, Air Buster, Biohazard Battle, Gleylancer, Tatsujin/Truxton, Granada, Fire Shark, Eliminate Down, Forgotten Worlds, Dangerous Seed, Trouble Shooter, Sagaia/Darius II, Atomic Robo-kid, Raiden, Lords of Thunder (Sega CD), Bari Arm (Sega CD), Silpheed (Sega CD), etc.
I italicized the FEW vertical shooters. It is a pathetically small selection, although MUSHA is definitely nice. Tatsujin is good, too. TFIII, TFIV, Gleylancer, and Eliminate Down are the stand-out horis in my eyes.
Now, I have bolded the shooters that are on BOTH consoles. About HALF or so of the MD shooters are also on the PCE. Guess what? For the majority, they are BETTER on the PCE. Some are comparable. Some are just... different, like Atomic Robo Kid with way better sprites on the PCE, but... hey, MD has better parallax... . Come to think of it, that is often the case; not much for parallax on the PCE, but larger sprites and overall better graphics on the PCE. Every bolded game above illustrates that.
So, yes, the MD does have a decent horizontal shooter library, but not many verticals. For the games on both systems, the PCE ones are usually better except for a less parallax on the PCE. Do not forget that on the PCE CD, there often IS parallax.
Now, the SNES vs. PCE:
The SNES has stuff like Super R-Type, R-Type III, Gradius III, three Parodius games, Super Aleste, Area 88/UN Squadron, Axelay, Darius Twin, Raiden, Pop 'n Twinbee, Thunder Spirits, etc.
So, there is Super R-Type and III on the SNES. The PCE has the original. I am not alone in saying that the original is the best. However, I do not debate that III is very nice. It does fall into the same trap that Castlevania IV did, by acting a bit as a display for the SNES graphical tricks. However, yes, III is good. If you like it better than the original, that is cool. We can call it even, I guess.
Gradius III on the SNES, Gradius I and II on the PCE. Well, all are great! I prefer II over I and III, but... again, call it even if you want.
Parodius Da! is good on both systems, but I say a bit better on the SNES. Plus the next two Parodius games are on the SFC. So, SNES wins there. Super Aleste on the SNES is comparable to Gunhed/Blazing Lazers, Super Star Soldier, Final Soldier, Soldier Blade, Spriggan, Star Parodier, and other games on the PCE. Yes, Super Aleste is great, but you have a bunch of similar and GREAT games on the PCE. Nothing can come near the combo that is Gunhed/Super Star Soldier/Final Soldier/Soldier Blade. NOTHING. You have one on the SNES verses a bunch that are that great on the PCE. Area 88 and Axelay on the SNES are wonderful. No debate. Darius Twin and Raiden both are much better represented on the PCE (AND MD, haha). Pop 'n Twinbee on the SNES vs. Detana Twinbee on the PCE. Both are great. If you go to the SNES for Thunder Spirits, you are a fool. Go play TFIII on the MD, which is comparable to Gate of Thunder on the PCE (I prefer GoT, but no denying that TFIII is great).
Yeah, some quality on the SNES, but... not a lot of quantity.
Then, the PCE has some AWESOME exclusives. Gate of Thunder, Spriggan (and the sequal), Download (and the sequal), Terraforming, Magical Chase, Air Zonk, Super Air Zonk, Blazing Lazers/Gunhed, Super Star Soldier, Final Soldier, Soldier Blade, Macross 2036, Sylphia, Sapphire, 1941: Counter Attack, Aldynes, and a lot more. I really don't think it is fair to call them clones. If you do, but then praise something like R-Type III (which is a "clone", in your words, of the memorization-type shooter), then I question where you are coming from.
The shoot 'em up rundown:
MD: lots of good stuff, but not a lot of great and really lacking in verticals.
SNES: not a lot of quantity, but there is some high quality there.
PCE: tons of quantity and tons of quality.
PCE wins easily. SNES second. MD third (but very very close!).
Breetai wrote:How NEC thought they could challange sega and nintendo in the US with those exclusives are beyond me. Don't get me wrong there are a few good games but at the end of the game that is all they are, good games, not classic games or excellent games just good games.
You say that will admitting that you have only given a passing glance at less than 50% of the library.
Where did I say that?
The very fact that you don't know that you said that says volumes about you having judged a system without having known much about it.
If you have only tried HuCard games on an emulator, then you are missing more than half the library of PCE games. The CD format became the STANDARD (unlike the Sega Mega CD, where it was an after-thought). You literally have not seen over half the PCE games. By missing that, you are missing the games with the high quality sound, graphics and some of the top overall games that people praise the PCE for. It is the equivalent of saying, "I don't much care for the SNES, but have only tried the games that came out in 1993 and earlier."
I've never played the Mega Drives CD games either but the MD's libary was still strong enough to provide memorable games, something that the PCE's hucard libary doesn't do anywhere near as well.
You are missing the point here. I touched on it just above, which is that the CD format actually became the standard format for the PC Engine before the half-way point of its shelf-life. The top A-class games generally came out for the CD, and you have not even tried them. It was meant to be like that since the PC Engine was still being designed.
The Mega CD was always just an afterthought by Sega to compete with the PC Engine (NOT the SNES, although it had to be marketed like that in the west). Sega was never intending to have the CD format be their primary MD format. They kept the focus on cartridges. As a result, if you stuck with the MD/Genesis, you didn't miss out on too much. On the other hand, if you didn't go CD with the PCE, you did not have access to the top titles at all.
Basically, think of the PC Engine as the Duo. Do not limit yourself to HuCards.
Breetai wrote:Wow, 6 pages in this thread?
People feel strongly about the things they dislike/hate.
Gotta admit you are very defensive when it comes to NEC.
It has more to do with you basing your opinion on it without having fully looked at it. I mean, you claim its shoot 'em up library was not that great. That is insane. If you had spent time with the top games, both on HuCard and CD, and still had the same conclusion, that would be cool. Likewise, if you said that you love platformers and beat 'em ups and did not dig the PCE lots, then that makes total sense. Personally, I find the SNES and MD platformers to be better, and the PCE beat 'em up (singular) to be well overshadowed by the Streets of Rage, Final Fight and Golden Axe series (yes, Golden Axe I is on the PCE, but it really does suck). Likewise with RPGs. Unless you don't mind playing them in Japanese, your selection is limited on the PCE.
Sales thread. Make offers! PC Engine and Famicom: http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=17892&p=197217#p197217.
My PC Engine/Turbografx-16 Guide: http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=39471&p=654857#p654857
Re: Systems you don't like.
hashiriya1 wrote:I am with the N64 camp. I got it at launch because I was so excited to play Pilotwings64. I enjoyed the game but that was it...I have had the system since launch and owned a total of three games for it. Mario 64, Pilotwings64, and Rogue Squadron. I got a brand new PS1 a few months later and didn't fire up the N64 until my review of Pilotwings 64 which I did earlier this year.
On a side note, I LOVE the PC Engine. There's just something about it. Some quirky games that weren't released on any other system. The TurboGrafx on the other hand, never got into it because of its limited library. The system was way better in its home turf.
Agreed on PC Engine. I also know that it is not for everyone. If you are into beat 'em ups, there is not much to offer. If you are into RPGs, there are tons.... but you need to play them in Japanese. Same with Snatcher type games.
As for the N64, I mostly agree.... but, come on, three games? At least get Wave Race 64 and F-Zero X! Sin & Punishment is cool. The Aki Wrestling games are great (but I guess you need to like wrestling, haha). Zelda is good, but Zelda III still blows it away in my opinion. At any rate, it is worth looking a bit more into than you have!!! It is an underwhelming system with some really wonderful gems that hold it up.
For whoever said that the N64 beats the PS1 in every category, you are nuts. If you are into 2D stuff at all, the N64 is a crap system.
Sales thread. Make offers! PC Engine and Famicom: http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=17892&p=197217#p197217.
My PC Engine/Turbografx-16 Guide: http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=39471&p=654857#p654857
Re: Systems you don't like.
Breetai wrote:For whoever said that the N64 beats the PS1 in every category, you are nuts. If you are into 2D stuff at all, the N64 is a crap system.
Yeah really, I didn't see who said that, but that statement is just laughable, not to mention undeniably false.
Anyways, two things. This thread is most entertaining thread I've seen here in awhile, and Breetai never disappoints.
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AppleQueso
Re: Systems you don't like.
Breetai wrote:For whoever said that the N64 beats the PS1 in every category, you are nuts. If you are into 2D stuff at all, the N64 is a crap system.
I'm pretty sure you could count the number of notable sprite-based 2D n64 games on one hand, and even then the only really worthwhile one is Mischief Makers.
It's a shame really imo, because the n64's d-pad happens to be nice, large and comfy.
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dreamakumat
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Re: Systems you don't like.
I'm Not Fan of the Original Playstation. the library is solid, But the hardware is everywhere.
System collection: Genesis Model 2, Sega nomad, Sega CD model 2, Sega 32x, Saturn model 2, sega sports dreamcast, Game gear, Sega Pico, Sega master system(Bios v1.3), Neo geo Pockett color, Wonderswan B&W, DS, DSlite, PS3 80GB, Gamecube, ColecoVision, Xbox.