I'm looking for a stereo receiver that has preferably 10 or more inputs, surround sound (5.1 or better), and a built-in scaler for all the 480i consoles out there. Is there something like that out there?
Also, I've heard that it's better to use receivers instead of using multiple switch boxes for hooking up multiple consoles... True?
home theater eqt
-
lordofduct
- Next-Gen
- Posts: 2907
- Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:57 pm
- Location: West Palm Beach
A receiver is good because it has a video processor in it.
See a switch box is just a string of wires that daisy chain all the inputs and slides the main out through a daisy switch to the one you want. The out come can cause a lot of interference introduced into the video and audio signal. Then there comes the issue of different types of inputs.
composite and s-vid can be easily swapped between them selves, the conversion is so basic it doesn't matter. So in a switch box this is fine. But what about coax, and component. When you start mixing all these up into your switch box, what signal is gonna come out of it? You can't convert RF Coax to Component, or vice versa, so easily. That needs an RF de-modulator... and well wouldn't fit in a switch box.
A receiver also on the other hand has a video processor. When you stick a composite signal in, it intelligently converts it to what ever output you want. There are stand alone "Video Processors" out there, they are basically just a switch box with the quality of an A/V receiver. Actually the quality can sometimes be a lot better then an A/V receiver... but alas stand alone video processors usually cost a lot of money, or a specialized for 1 type of input or something. I'd get more into the technical side of WHY the picture is better and what I mean by "intelligent", but I yammer on a lot here about that stuff already and I just woke up like 5 minutes ago.
Anyways, off the top of my head I can think of some really good options... but it really depends on your price range. and what kind of audio power you want from it.
See a switch box is just a string of wires that daisy chain all the inputs and slides the main out through a daisy switch to the one you want. The out come can cause a lot of interference introduced into the video and audio signal. Then there comes the issue of different types of inputs.
composite and s-vid can be easily swapped between them selves, the conversion is so basic it doesn't matter. So in a switch box this is fine. But what about coax, and component. When you start mixing all these up into your switch box, what signal is gonna come out of it? You can't convert RF Coax to Component, or vice versa, so easily. That needs an RF de-modulator... and well wouldn't fit in a switch box.
A receiver also on the other hand has a video processor. When you stick a composite signal in, it intelligently converts it to what ever output you want. There are stand alone "Video Processors" out there, they are basically just a switch box with the quality of an A/V receiver. Actually the quality can sometimes be a lot better then an A/V receiver... but alas stand alone video processors usually cost a lot of money, or a specialized for 1 type of input or something. I'd get more into the technical side of WHY the picture is better and what I mean by "intelligent", but I yammer on a lot here about that stuff already and I just woke up like 5 minutes ago.
Anyways, off the top of my head I can think of some really good options... but it really depends on your price range. and what kind of audio power you want from it.
-
lordofduct
- Next-Gen
- Posts: 2907
- Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:57 pm
- Location: West Palm Beach
Just to give you an idea of how I think... here is the model just under the Marantz receiver I own back in Florida.
http://us.marantz.com/Products/2205.asp#
It supports:
4 hdmi
4 component
5 composite
5 s-video
but independently selects between only 8 of them at a time. Meaning you go into a menu to choose what selection is assigned to which input. It also supports renaming of the selectors, so when you go to Video1, it says "SEGA GENESIS"... hee.
Anyways, despite this 8 independent selections, like most receivers you can assign multiple inputs to the same selector and just make sure that you only use one of them at a time. I have 9 things hooked up to mine.
It's 7.1 with DTS and DD support, THX certified, converts all interlaced images to progressive, supports up to 1080p (but does not upscale to it), discrete amplification across all 7 sound channels, seperate sub pre-out and pre-outs for all other channels, pushes 110 W by 8 ohms per channel, and tons of other neat bells and whistles. It also supports converting stereo sound into ProLogic II or DTS Neo-6 with multiple different tweaking capabilities for different results from each.
http://us.marantz.com/Products/2205.asp#
It supports:
4 hdmi
4 component
5 composite
5 s-video
but independently selects between only 8 of them at a time. Meaning you go into a menu to choose what selection is assigned to which input. It also supports renaming of the selectors, so when you go to Video1, it says "SEGA GENESIS"... hee.
Anyways, despite this 8 independent selections, like most receivers you can assign multiple inputs to the same selector and just make sure that you only use one of them at a time. I have 9 things hooked up to mine.
It's 7.1 with DTS and DD support, THX certified, converts all interlaced images to progressive, supports up to 1080p (but does not upscale to it), discrete amplification across all 7 sound channels, seperate sub pre-out and pre-outs for all other channels, pushes 110 W by 8 ohms per channel, and tons of other neat bells and whistles. It also supports converting stereo sound into ProLogic II or DTS Neo-6 with multiple different tweaking capabilities for different results from each.
-
D.D.D.
- Next-Gen
- Posts: 3326
- Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:33 am
- Location: of the Estrecho de Gibraltar is where now?
- Contact:
Thanks dude. The Marantz model looks nice and the price isn't bad either. (I saw some Onkyo ones the other day that looked nice as well.)
Audio power isn't so much of a concern as I'm still going to be apartment-bound for a while.
My main concern is being able to hook up a bunch of systems (primarily 480i systems that have s-vid at best) and have them be playable on an HDTV. I want the signal to be the best which is why I thought that perhaps an A/V receiver would be the best solution for that.
Also, I don't want any lag so, are there any HDTVs (or projectors) that have no lag when playing 480i systems? Would be better to have the TV or the receiver do that?
Audio power isn't so much of a concern as I'm still going to be apartment-bound for a while.
My main concern is being able to hook up a bunch of systems (primarily 480i systems that have s-vid at best) and have them be playable on an HDTV. I want the signal to be the best which is why I thought that perhaps an A/V receiver would be the best solution for that.
Also, I don't want any lag so, are there any HDTVs (or projectors) that have no lag when playing 480i systems? Would be better to have the TV or the receiver do that?
-
lordofduct
- Next-Gen
- Posts: 2907
- Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:57 pm
- Location: West Palm Beach
There's actually a long time in work article I worked on for the site that goes over it... it is NOT done yet though because I wanted to get into everything and haven't had the time to finish it. anyways, that's a tangent...
Conversion of 480i is a HUGE problem when it comes to things. So many issues can arise that cause the video to lag up. Some TVs have good scalers and converters that reduce this, others don't. Same goes with A/V receivers. The good thing is once you've converted to your TV's native resolution and scan mode, everything is fine diddly do from there.
My suggestion in A/V receivers is one of two things...
buy cheap as hell and don't wine about the crappy quality...
OR
invest hard cash and get amazing quality.
The latter of which is a long hard hunt. Finding out the performance of a device is very difficult with out bringing it home and hooking it up and throwing everything at it. Worst off is that you play old school video games, reviewers out there review a lot of the abilities of these receivers, but NEVER do a review that corrolates with gaming. A lot of them consider it dumb because the video phile in them thinks you shouldn't even play these old games because they are so out dated.
seriousily, I've heard that response! "You play the Genesis? Dude that thing is only 240 vertical... I won't even waste my time with that."
...
NOTICE: I ignore professional level products and set ups, such as dedicated video processors. The A/V solutions I deal with range from 500 dollars up to the 20 thousand dollars, and that makes some people drop their left nut. SO I will not even suggest anything higher then that.
Your gonna have lag along the way no matter what with an HDTV. So try to get all the conversion done in one place, fast, and with good quality. This is where a high end A/V receiver steps in.
My first suggestion: Avoid all in one boxes like the plague. If you even thought once about purchasing one of those speakers/receiver all in one box sets for 400 dollars stop reading anything I say now. You aren't concerned about the audio or video enough for high end video equipment to matter. Not that this makes you inferior, this is not your passion, that is all.
Avoid BestBuy, CircuitCity, or anything similar. They deal with the low range receivers. The best I've ever seen from them are the lower end Pioneer Elite series. Elites are pretty darn good, but if you're gonna shell out the 800 or so dollars for a low level Elite go the extra couple hundred bucks for a better piece of equipment.
Go to a Audio Advisor or something similar and go over to their deal table. It's a table covered in equipment off their shelves. They've been used in the store as display units and have been removed for the latest models. You can hit some really great deals... just write down all the receivers that look good to you and meet the input requirements you need. Go home, research them that day and return to buy one if you like it enough. DON'T do this though if it only saves you like 50 bucks. They don't get the same warranty or anything and should only be chosen if you really are getting a hot deal. Which you should be getting, they are display units, they know this. And if they aren't giving deals on them, they're purposely raping you.
Get as many conversion steps done inside of the receiver so that way the final outcome is as close to the native display for your HDTV (if it's a fixed resolution tv). The only downside is if you go and get a 1080p television, you'll get the progressive and HDMI easy as pie, but that 1080 resolution is a bit of an annoyance... a lot of receivers either charge a lot for 1080p upscaling, OR they don't do it at all because it really isn't worth it to them.
...
I gotta go, my buddies B-Day party starts in 15 minutes.
Conversion of 480i is a HUGE problem when it comes to things. So many issues can arise that cause the video to lag up. Some TVs have good scalers and converters that reduce this, others don't. Same goes with A/V receivers. The good thing is once you've converted to your TV's native resolution and scan mode, everything is fine diddly do from there.
My suggestion in A/V receivers is one of two things...
buy cheap as hell and don't wine about the crappy quality...
OR
invest hard cash and get amazing quality.
The latter of which is a long hard hunt. Finding out the performance of a device is very difficult with out bringing it home and hooking it up and throwing everything at it. Worst off is that you play old school video games, reviewers out there review a lot of the abilities of these receivers, but NEVER do a review that corrolates with gaming. A lot of them consider it dumb because the video phile in them thinks you shouldn't even play these old games because they are so out dated.
seriousily, I've heard that response! "You play the Genesis? Dude that thing is only 240 vertical... I won't even waste my time with that."
...
NOTICE: I ignore professional level products and set ups, such as dedicated video processors. The A/V solutions I deal with range from 500 dollars up to the 20 thousand dollars, and that makes some people drop their left nut. SO I will not even suggest anything higher then that.
Your gonna have lag along the way no matter what with an HDTV. So try to get all the conversion done in one place, fast, and with good quality. This is where a high end A/V receiver steps in.
My first suggestion: Avoid all in one boxes like the plague. If you even thought once about purchasing one of those speakers/receiver all in one box sets for 400 dollars stop reading anything I say now. You aren't concerned about the audio or video enough for high end video equipment to matter. Not that this makes you inferior, this is not your passion, that is all.
Avoid BestBuy, CircuitCity, or anything similar. They deal with the low range receivers. The best I've ever seen from them are the lower end Pioneer Elite series. Elites are pretty darn good, but if you're gonna shell out the 800 or so dollars for a low level Elite go the extra couple hundred bucks for a better piece of equipment.
Go to a Audio Advisor or something similar and go over to their deal table. It's a table covered in equipment off their shelves. They've been used in the store as display units and have been removed for the latest models. You can hit some really great deals... just write down all the receivers that look good to you and meet the input requirements you need. Go home, research them that day and return to buy one if you like it enough. DON'T do this though if it only saves you like 50 bucks. They don't get the same warranty or anything and should only be chosen if you really are getting a hot deal. Which you should be getting, they are display units, they know this. And if they aren't giving deals on them, they're purposely raping you.
Get as many conversion steps done inside of the receiver so that way the final outcome is as close to the native display for your HDTV (if it's a fixed resolution tv). The only downside is if you go and get a 1080p television, you'll get the progressive and HDMI easy as pie, but that 1080 resolution is a bit of an annoyance... a lot of receivers either charge a lot for 1080p upscaling, OR they don't do it at all because it really isn't worth it to them.
...
I gotta go, my buddies B-Day party starts in 15 minutes.
-
metaleggman
- 128-bit
- Posts: 894
- Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:21 pm
If you're using an HDMI out or a component out on the A/V-R, there shouldn't be any lag BUT if you think there is lag, check out the manual for the receiver to see if there is a way to delay the audio. I would think a higher up A/V-R should have the option for such a feature, but I wouldn't stake my life on it. Most likely though, there won't be much of a delay.
-
peace4myheart
- 128-bit
- Posts: 707
- Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:34 am
- Location: Deep In The Heart Of Texas
Denon are highly regarded in the AV world. However as for as bang for buck i'd go for marantz. I'm currently rocking a Yamaha V861 which i'm totally satisfied with. It does 720p/1080i upscaling which is fine as my Viera takes over the final step to 1080p. I've never experienced lag from anything plugged in. All my modern consoles are plugged in through their best output (RGB/Component/HDMI for Xbox, PS2, 360, PS3) and audio in through digital. It also outputs 7.1 at 105w per channel.
The only thing is I don't use HDTV for retro as i've got a nice 27" widescreen that I use for that kind of stuff.
I managed to get mine ex-display for £350 (should have been £500). Managed to get a bargain due to it not having a manual or box. (like I care/need one...)
The only thing is I don't use HDTV for retro as i've got a nice 27" widescreen that I use for that kind of stuff.
I managed to get mine ex-display for £350 (should have been £500). Managed to get a bargain due to it not having a manual or box. (like I care/need one...)
Marurun wrote:Don’t mind-shart your pants, guys
-
D.D.D.
- Next-Gen
- Posts: 3326
- Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:33 am
- Location: of the Estrecho de Gibraltar is where now?
- Contact:
Sounds good guys~
Nah, the only time I considered a stereo in a box solution was back 4 or 5 years ago when all I had was an EDTV and a PS2 + GCN set up in the condo.
Okay since we are the lag subject, I've heard that projectors (even HDTV projectors) are not subject to lag... Any truth to that?
"You play the Genesis? Dude that thing is only 240 vertical... I won't even waste my time with that."... I know the Genesis' resolution and anything in that era doesn't even hit 480i but, why wouldn't the SDTV have an issue "upscaling" that video?
Nah, the only time I considered a stereo in a box solution was back 4 or 5 years ago when all I had was an EDTV and a PS2 + GCN set up in the condo.
Okay since we are the lag subject, I've heard that projectors (even HDTV projectors) are not subject to lag... Any truth to that?
"You play the Genesis? Dude that thing is only 240 vertical... I won't even waste my time with that."... I know the Genesis' resolution and anything in that era doesn't even hit 480i but, why wouldn't the SDTV have an issue "upscaling" that video?
If i understand the question you are asking..
It's because most SDTV's are CRT. Tube TV's, like tube monitors don't have a native resolution. Therefore can display any resolution it is sent. The clarity is another issue but it's not worth going into semantics. All the TV does is display 240 as native. Thats why it looks clearer. It's not introducing any artifacts or bleed because it's not approximating where the 'pixels' should be. Thats a rough explanation anyway. I'm sure somebody else has more knowledge about this and the time to go into it in depth if you need more info.
I've never experienced lag on any TV, even playing rhythm games has never given me any trouble. Then again i've always used an A/V Receiver. So I either have good kit, or i've just been lucky getting kit that doesn't suffer from it.
I think going the A/V receiver route rather than switch boxes is the best way to avoid it anyway.
It's because most SDTV's are CRT. Tube TV's, like tube monitors don't have a native resolution. Therefore can display any resolution it is sent. The clarity is another issue but it's not worth going into semantics. All the TV does is display 240 as native. Thats why it looks clearer. It's not introducing any artifacts or bleed because it's not approximating where the 'pixels' should be. Thats a rough explanation anyway. I'm sure somebody else has more knowledge about this and the time to go into it in depth if you need more info.
I've never experienced lag on any TV, even playing rhythm games has never given me any trouble. Then again i've always used an A/V Receiver. So I either have good kit, or i've just been lucky getting kit that doesn't suffer from it.
I think going the A/V receiver route rather than switch boxes is the best way to avoid it anyway.
Marurun wrote:Don’t mind-shart your pants, guys