Do you really care about video games?

[Jmustang1968]

@MrPopo

What percentage of Diablo II players do RMT (buying and/or selling)? Maybe 5%? It's a fairly small number, right?

What percentage of Diablo III players do you think will do it? Maybe 95%? If you don't do it, you will be a shitty player. That's how the game was designed. People will find a strong sword, sell it for real money and then use that to justify spending their own money on buying stuff from the auction house. "Well, I just made $100 selling a sword. I can use this money to buy that magic wand I want."

It's not just about the number of players who do it. The fact that it is officially allowed makes a huge fucking difference. Instead of being shunned/kicked/blacklisted/banned for buying gold, you will be viewed as a shitty player if you don't do it. That's because you actually will be a shitty player if you don't use the auction house. You would be handicapping yourself by not taking advantage of it. Real money is the most important thing in pay to win games like Diablo III, so if you don't use real money, you will be gimped.

It is just loot. I see your point, but I don't think the purchasing of gear will be as widespread as you think.

[MrPopo]

You want to justify selfishness. You want to justify greed. Fine, then you are a cruel and awful human being.

Explain to me how I'm better off by not being selfish. Go ahead, I'm curious. And I'm specifically talking about the "giving up something for strangers I will never meet" selflessness you're talking about. I understand why it's a good thing to sacrifice stuff for your friends/family.

I'm happy to pay tax in order to ensure people are treated well, are healthy and happy. This is a good thing.

Why? Keep in mind you won't get anywhere appealing to my "moral" sense, as I'm a firm believer that morals are an artifical human construct and I don't feel bound by them.

You want to keep your money and watch people suffer. Correct? No? What to argue this point. Come on then big bad Republican, get off your arse and justify yourself. Why should you have that money?

Because I earned it? I took the time to go to school and get a job and do my job satisfactorily.

Or more specifically. Why the fuck should the CEO who does fuck all, who never works a decent hard days work in his fucking life have millions while others working for his company for minimum fucking wage have to die on the streets or rack up rediculous debts because he is too damn greedy?

I like how you assume that someone is instantly born a CEO and doesn't actually do anything at his company, just sits in his nice office and has his secretary bring him fresh coffee. Nope, CEOs didn't have to do anything to get where they are, or make any decisions now that they are where they are.

Go on. Justify it... and try doing it without sounding like a cunt. If you can... I'll give you everything I own (profit motive, otherwise you might get bored).

In the game of life there are winners and there are losers. Deal with it.

Maybe I have a slightly different view on this. Maybe it's because without this flawed NHS system which you claim doesn't work, without that system, I wouldn't be here. Neither would either of my parents. Why? Because we can't afford the rediculous prices that healthcare reaches when privatised. Chances are I'll never have a full time job, my medical conditions will slowly make my ability to work less and less. I'd love to be able to contribute to society more than what I use... but I can't. By your logic. I should go away and die, to save you the trouble of paying for my medical care. How sick is that?

Yes, you are clearly invested in it and have a very biased point of view. But you want to talk about selfish? It seems pretty selfish to me for someone who contributes little financially to the state to demand a huge financial contribution from the state.

I guarentee that every single person reading this post will be upset, offended and even angry at this point. Go on, call the moderators, report the post, get me banned. I don't care. Because if you can't swallow this point, you're not worth my time... all of you. This is very serious issue and I will not sit back while a bunch of self-important little fucking douches, with their smartphones, computers and long list of games, tell me why people without such luxuries deserve such disreguard. You have no idea what it feels like to go without, because if you did you wouldn't be so fucking selfish.

You should take some time to calm down before writing out your posts; you're getting far too emotional and it's obfuscating the points you are trying to make. But yes, how dare we, we who worked hard in school and in our jobs to earn money use that money for things like games and healthcare. We should fully subsidize those who cannot or are not productive because everyone is a unique snowflake that needs to be treasured.

I'm a Socialist and proud, I have compassion and dignity. I care about people on a level greater than just myself.

Compassion and dignity is what fuels your socialism? I find that hard to believe when I see that you're relying heavily on the social programs in order to survive.

PS: For those who require a less moral and emotionally focused argument. I'd like to point out, the NHS costs less per person in the UK than the combined costs of government buyouts that the federal government is forced into when Americans cannot afford their medical bills. When they find the debt too great and are forced bankrupt, who picks up the bill... the tax payers. So not only is our system more compassionate and fair, but it costs our government less as well... USA you're a fucking failure, you can't even manage greedy properly. The ONLY people who come out on top with the American healthcare system is the fucking insurance companies... and you let them, what idiots are you?

Please back up with sources.

[TornadoCreator]

Wow dude, it seems your only contribution seems to be as an incredible douche on a gaming forum since the day you arrived. Ya man socialism rocks, US is a failure. I am not going to debate with sch an irrational and sensationalist person who repeatedly intentionally insults over and over. Only your view point is right and you get aggresively angry and argumentative at every post. Taking with you is an exercise in futility as you can't discuss or reason with an irrational person.

Yes, only my viewpoint is right... if it was wrong I wouldn't have it. Why? Because I don't form an opinion unless I have a lot of information and therefore I can be sure I'm correct. I'm rarely if ever wrong and when I am I happily admit it because I'd rather be correct than right. If you're threatened by the fact that I always think I'm right that's too bad, because EVERYONE always thinks they're right, if you thought you where wrong, why would you have that opinion in the first place. I'm simply honest.

Yes, I was deeply offended and still am deeply offended by stupid Republican greed-mongering. I'm sure your offended by my post too... but let's see. Since I made my post I've have how many responses of people simply insulting me rather than considering why I was offended... yet I'm expected to give your opinion respect. Fuck you all.

[MrPopo]

@MrPopo

What percentage of Diablo II players do RMT (buying and/or selling)? Maybe 5%? It's a fairly small number, right?

What percentage of Diablo III players do you think will do it? Maybe 95%? If you don't do it, you will be a shitty player. That's how the game was designed. People will find a strong sword, sell it for real money and then use that to justify spending their own money on buying stuff from the auction house. "Well, I just made $100 selling a sword. I can use this money to buy that magic wand I want."

It's not just about the number of players who do it. The fact that it is officially allowed makes a huge fucking difference. Instead of being shunned/kicked/blacklisted/banned for buying gold, you will be viewed as a shitty player if you don't do it. That's because you actually will be a shitty player if you don't use the auction house. You would be handicapping yourself by not taking advantage of it. Real money is the most important thing in pay to win games like Diablo III, so if you don't use real money, you will be gimped.

It is just loot. I see your point, but I don't think the purchasing of gear will be as widespread as you think.

I have no idea how many people today buy D2 items. I'm sure it's a significant portion (or else there wouldn't be so many people trying to sell their items) but people don't tend to advertise that they purchase items.

And hold on, did you just say that making $100 off an item and spending that on a different item is bad? That's just item trading with real currency as a middleman instead of an in-game currency. In fact, if you want, set up a special paypal for Diablo III that you never put money in to. So now instead of using Stone of Jordans you're using actual, but you never invested your own cash into the sytem.

In Diablo II you were in a situation where you were unlikely to be able to get all your gear from drops. To make up for it you would trade items with other people, frequently in the form of the SoJ currency (as it was easy to use and uncommon enough to have worth). That situation will be the same in Diablo III, only now instead of the SoJ you have the dollar. Just like in D2 you would do Meph runs to get uniques to sell for SoJs and buy the stuff you want from other people now you can do X runs to get items to sell on the auction house and use those proceeds to buy the items you want.

Plus, I suspect that there will still be an item-based economy, as there are a lot of people who cannot access the financial transactions or don't want to access the financial transactions.

[Jmustang1968]

Wow dude, it seems your only contribution seems to be as an incredible douche on a gaming forum since the day you arrived. Ya man socialism rocks, US is a failure. I am not going to debate with sch an irrational and sensationalist person who repeatedly intentionally insults over and over. Only your view point is right and you get aggresively angry and argumentative at every post. Taking with you is an exercise in futility as you can't discuss or reason with an irrational person.

Yes, only my viewpoint is right... if it was wrong I wouldn't have it. Why? Because I don't form an opinion unless I have a lot of information and therefore I can be sure I'm correct. I'm rarely if ever wrong and when I am I happily admit it because I'd rather be correct than right. If you're threatened by the fact that I always think I'm right that's too bad, because EVERYONE always thinks they're right, if you thought you where wrong, why would you have that opinion in the first place. I'm simply honest.

Yes, I was deeply offended and still am deeply offended by stupid Republican greed-mongering. I'm sure your offended by my post too... but let's see. Since I made my post I've have how many responses of people simply insulting me rather than considering why I was offended... yet I'm expected to give your opinion respect. Fuck you all.

Then don't contribute to discussions if you can't play nice. You want people to sympathize with you for being offended by someone posting their political view but are surprised when people react negatively to you spewing direct insults and hate? Cmon man,wake up to reality.

By the way I am not a republican. Greed mongering lol. How about the social parasites created in a socialist system?

[MrPopo]

Wow dude, it seems your only contribution seems to be as an incredible douche on a gaming forum since the day you arrived. Ya man socialism rocks, US is a failure. I am not going to debate with sch an irrational and sensationalist person who repeatedly intentionally insults over and over. Only your view point is right and you get aggresively angry and argumentative at every post. Taking with you is an exercise in futility as you can't discuss or reason with an irrational person.

Yes, only my viewpoint is right... if it was wrong I wouldn't have it. Why? Because I don't form an opinion unless I have a lot of information and therefore I can be sure I'm correct. I'm rarely if ever wrong and when I am I happily admit it because I'd rather be correct than right. If you're threatened by the fact that I always think I'm right that's too bad, because EVERYONE always thinks they're right, if you thought you where wrong, why would you have that opinion in the first place. I'm simply honest.

There's that arrogance again. You're assuming that anyone who has done the research you have done would come to the same conclusions you did. How about a bibliography, then? I want to make sure that you're getting a well rounded set of sources and not just getting a bunch of people with the same biased viewpoint. The pro-abstinence people have lots of studies that were run by the pro-abstinence people that shows that abstinence education works. They like to ignore the studies that shows it doesn't. And even supposing that your opinions are formed from people making a pursuasive argument for both sides at the end of the day the reason you're not going to speak out against social programs because you depend on them so heavily.

Yes, I was deeply offended and still am deeply offended by stupid Republican greed-mongering. I'm sure your offended by my post too... but let's see. Since I made my post I've have how many responses of people simply insulting me rather than considering why I was offended... yet I'm expected to give your opinion respect. Fuck you all.

You'd get much better responses if you weren't so combatitive and took the time to well articulate your posts instead of spending your time talking about how everyone is evil.

[Inazuma]

I have no idea how many people today buy D2 items. I'm sure it's a significant portion (or else there wouldn't be so many people trying to sell their items) but people don't tend to advertise that they purchase items.

And hold on, did you just say that making $100 off an item and spending that on a different item is bad? That's just item trading with real currency as a middleman instead of an in-game currency. In fact, if you want, set up a special paypal for Diablo III that you never put money in to. So now instead of using Stone of Jordans you're using actual, but you never invested your own cash into the sytem.

In Diablo II you were in a situation where you were unlikely to be able to get all your gear from drops. To make up for it you would trade items with other people, frequently in the form of the SoJ currency (as it was easy to use and uncommon enough to have worth). That situation will be the same in Diablo III, only now instead of the SoJ you have the dollar. Just like in D2 you would do Meph runs to get uniques to sell for SoJs and buy the stuff you want from other people now you can do X runs to get items to sell on the auction house and use those proceeds to buy the items you want.

Plus, I suspect that there will still be an item-based economy, as there are a lot of people who cannot access the financial transactions or don't want to access the financial transactions.

I'm tired of trying to explain this shit. I'd rather have a fair game that costs less money than one that is completely designed around who can spend the most real money. That's fine if you prefer the latter, but you will never convince me to play Diablo III. I tried my best to play a pay to win game, but it didn't work out. It was impossible for me to succeed without spending a ton of real money. It bothered me very much and eventually I decided to quit. I don't want to play or support a pay to win game again.

[BoringSupreez]

Yes, only my viewpoint is right... if it was wrong I wouldn't have it. Why? Because I don't form an opinion unless I have a lot of information and therefore I can be sure I'm correct. I'm rarely if ever wrong and when I am I happily admit it because I'd rather be correct than right. If you're threatened by the fact that I always think I'm right that's too bad, because EVERYONE always thinks they're right, if you thought you where wrong, why would you have that opinion in the first place. I'm simply honest.

Yes, I was deeply offended and still am deeply offended by stupid Republican greed-mongering. I'm sure your offended by my post too... but let's see. Since I made my post I've have how many responses of people simply insulting me rather than considering why I was offended... yet I'm expected to give your opinion respect. Fuck you all.

You are the most arrogant, and willingly blind member I've ever seen. You are constantly rude to anyone who doesn't agree with you. Why? No one here has done anything to you. You seriously need to chill out, and stop causing all these arguments. I get the impression you enjoy this sort of thing.

[TornadoCreator]

You want to justify selfishness. You want to justify greed. Fine, then you are a cruel and awful human being.

Explain to me how I'm better off by not being selfish. Go ahead, I'm curious. And I'm specifically talking about the "giving up something for strangers I will never meet" selflessness you're talking about. I understand why it's a good thing to sacrifice stuff for your friends/family.

You're not. It doesn't make you better off in the slightest. It's about making them better off. You get no benefit whatsoever except perhaps the knowledge that you're making someone elses life easier. For me that's enough I like making other people happy. If everyone follows my way of thinking the collective quality of all life improves, which is a pretty big benefit. Is that enough?

I'm happy to pay tax in order to ensure people are treated well, are healthy and happy. This is a good thing.

Why? Keep in mind you won't get anywhere appealing to my "moral" sense, as I'm a firm believer that morals are an artifical human construct and I don't feel bound by them.

At which point we fundamentally disagree. However you're lying. You do feel bound by morals, which is why you don't rape people you're horny, kill people for the slightest offense, or steal something just because you want it. The reason why I feel happy to do this is because I feel it is simply right. It's a nice thing to care. It's good to care. I care.... don't you? If you don't care, well, fair enough I suppose, but I would consider you a horrible person. Compassion is one of the fundamental values I consider in humanity, to lack compassion makes you for lack of a better word... Evil.

You want to keep your money and watch people suffer. Correct? No? What to argue this point. Come on then big bad Republican, get off your arse and justify yourself. Why should you have that money?

Because I earned it? I took the time to go to school and get a job and do my job satisfactorily.

So what? You earned the money. Big deal. By our capitalist systems, I can earn money by doing nothing. I could be a corporate shareholder, I could be a landlord, I could own an intellectual property or copyright. These things can earn me money without me even moving. The concept of earning money doesn't impress me. Why do you deserve the money? What good do you do society?

Or more specifically. Why the fuck should the CEO who does fuck all, who never works a decent hard days work in his fucking life have millions while others working for his company for minimum fucking wage have to die on the streets or rack up rediculous debts because he is too damn greedy?

I like how you assume that someone is instantly born a CEO and doesn't actually do anything at his company, just sits in his nice office and has his secretary bring him fresh coffee. Nope, CEOs didn't have to do anything to get where they are, or make any decisions now that they are where they are.

Actually yes. CEOs do nothing, not compared to the standard minimum wage worker. They perhaps designed a product or a service, there's a high chance they did sod all and inherited the company from their parents, but even if they did it all themselves, they likely work less in a year than a single worker in their company works in a month, and they earn millions while the worker gets a pitance. You know what I mean, don't try to reduce my argument to rediculousness. You surely agree a CEO doesn't earn their money, not like any worker does... they sit around and get rich off other peoples hard work, it's called SLAVERY! We just changed the system a little.

Go on. Justify it... and try doing it without sounding like a cunt. If you can... I'll give you everything I own (profit motive, otherwise you might get bored).

In the game of life there are winners and there are losers. Deal with it.

Wow. Really? That's what you're going to go for. Well in the game of life, there are decent people and there are cunts... which one are you?

Maybe I have a slightly different view on this. Maybe it's because without this flawed NHS system which you claim doesn't work, without that system, I wouldn't be here. Neither would either of my parents. Why? Because we can't afford the rediculous prices that healthcare reaches when privatised. Chances are I'll never have a full time job, my medical conditions will slowly make my ability to work less and less. I'd love to be able to contribute to society more than what I use... but I can't. By your logic. I should go away and die, to save you the trouble of paying for my medical care. How sick is that?

Yes, you are clearly invested in it and have a very biased point of view. But you want to talk about selfish? It seems pretty selfish to me for someone who contributes little financially to the state to demand a huge financial contribution from the state.

Yes it is selfish. I would love to be able to chose to not put such a strain on the hospitals, to not work up bills in the thousands of pounds, to be able to work and keep a little bit of my dignity, but some people aren't that lucky. I take solice in the fact that I'm a generally good person and I try to live my life making as many people happy as I can. I'm a very angry and frustrated man, living in constant pain. It's difficult for me to justify my life and drain on society... but I try. Other people seem to think the world owes them something. I'm thankful that in my country the average person wants to help me, they like the NHS, they support me getting the help I need. They're good people and I respect each and every one of them. In USA they would happily watch me suffer while complaining that stoping my pain might mean they can't afford another burger at McDonalds that week, and that would make me feel truly ashamed.

Do you want me to curl and die? Would you rather I throw myself off a bridge to save you the anguish of paying for my care? I'm sure there are many disabled people without my willpower and force of personality that might actually do it if you make them feel like worthless leeches. There lives are hard enough without being made to feel pointless. But, hell, at least you won't have pay as much tax, everyone will be better off without the disabled and infirm won't them... do I need to take this analogy to conclusion, I would hate to have to break Godwin's law.

I guarentee that every single person reading this post will be upset, offended and even angry at this point. Go on, call the moderators, report the post, get me banned. I don't care. Because if you can't swallow this point, you're not worth my time... all of you. This is very serious issue and I will not sit back while a bunch of self-important little fucking douches, with their smartphones, computers and long list of games, tell me why people without such luxuries deserve such disreguard. You have no idea what it feels like to go without, because if you did you wouldn't be so fucking selfish.

You should take some time to calm down before writing out your posts; you're getting far too emotional and it's obfuscating the points you are trying to make. But yes, how dare we, we who worked hard in school and in our jobs to earn money use that money for things like games and healthcare. We should fully subsidize those who cannot or are not productive because everyone is a unique snowflake that needs to be treasured.

Yes actually. I realise you're being sarcastic, but that's exactly what I'm saying. You should help those less fortunate than yourself. It's the right thing to do. The non-productive are rarely if ever non-productive by choice. People without work, are usually looking for work and willing to work, would it be so hard for you to help them, to treat them like human beings and not the filth you have to tread on to succeed.

I'm a Socialist and proud, I have compassion and dignity. I care about people on a level greater than just myself.

Compassion and dignity is what fuels your socialism? I find that hard to believe when I see that you're relying heavily on the social programs in order to survive.

I'll accept that personal interests would seem the most likely reason for me to be a socialist. But that's not the case. I've always been extremely liberal minded. I have always agreed with socialist ideals and found capitalism sickening. I will point out, my medical issues didn't really start to effect me in a serious manner until I was about 20 years old and even then only in the last 2 years have I sought out specialist help. I have had multiple full-time jobs, I went to university and I was fully intending to be a chemist. This is high paying professional position, I would have been on a 6 figure salary and would probably have been in the higher tax rates. I still voted Liberal Democrats when I was a teenager. I expected to be a rich professional at that age, I didn't expect my medical issues to damage my career prospects so much. I would still even then, have happily supported all socialist ideals I support now... but I won't say I don't feel personally involved, it's annoying for me that so many people will assume an alterior motive, especially as if I was in your position I'd probably be thinking the same.

PS: For those who require a less moral and emotionally focused argument. I'd like to point out, the NHS costs less per person in the UK than the combined costs of government buyouts that the federal government is forced into when Americans cannot afford their medical bills. When they find the debt too great and are forced bankrupt, who picks up the bill... the tax payers. So not only is our system more compassionate and fair, but it costs our government less as well... USA you're a fucking failure, you can't even manage greedy properly. The ONLY people who come out on top with the American healthcare system is the fucking insurance companies... and you let them, what idiots are you?

Please back up with sources.

I can happily back up this claim with sources, please give me a few days and I'll send them to you. Alternatively you can look it up yourself online, it's not hard to find the information and inform yourself about the state of the US healthcare system. It's the reason USA is so lowly rated internationally for it's healthcare system.

Thank you for taking the time to actually respond properly. It makes a nice change from just insults.

[The Last Horseman]

Something I noticed in this giant shit storm of a thread....

Tornado Creator said something about why some people are against universal healthcare. I for one am against it for the fact of how long it can take you to get to the doctor because they have to take everyone when there is universal healthcare. I know 5 people that have died waiting for help with their diseases, who couldn't get any because they were behind 100 people with equal or lesser problems. It's sad.


And, WTF happened to this thread? The shit really hit the fan.