Do you really care about video games?

[Jmustang1968]

This is about protecting the consumer, in which case government regulation is almost required because companies will do whatever they can to make money. That's the whole point of regulation, and the commonly expressed republican/tea party belief that regulation is unilaterally a bad thing is simply wrong. Sometimes regulation is needed, sometimes it hinders efficient business. It should be examined on a case-by-case basis.

Was that really necessary? When has it ever been wrong in this country to hold a different belief than another person? I, for one, happen to think the liberal/progressive idea of still more regulations is simply wrong. I'm not trying to instigate an argument, far from it. All I'm asking that since this is a gaming themed site, do we really need that kind of political jabbing going on in here? There are other forums for that debate and it only seems to lead to angry outbursts and regretted sayings all around.

Yes it was necessary, stop acting butt-hurt just because he disagrees with the extremist views that Republicans have nowadays on regulations and governmental involvement (and yes, they are extremist. Anyone outside of USA listening to rants about how "Obamacare" will destroy your way of life honestly considers your countries political situation to be a joke. We're laughing at you America). The fact is, we're discussing a political issue here, and his comment was justified and correct. The Republican taxation model doesn't work, their anti universal healthcare stance is rediculous and their heavy leaning towards corporate interests make them appear to be anything but fair. If you don't want a debate with political jabbing you're going to be very bored on any forum because everything comes down to politics at some points. Based on your "I'm oh so offended" response, I assume you're a Republican, and on the internet that's asking for trouble. Outside of USA, the Republican party is a joke, it's an extreme right-wing party that in Europe would be nothing more than a minor special interests party. Considering that you name "progressive" as though that's in opposition to your party, you're going to be very offended a lot of the time on the internet... because this is the internet, where progressive media and social reform starts. Now stop being "offended" at the drop of a hat, it's pathetic.

And I would say I am glad I don't live in a nanny state type government that you do. The british economy and the rest of europes is going to hell right now as well. The cost of living has skyrocketed. I wouldn't be throwing stones in glass houses.

I am not going to get into detailed political debate typing on my cell phone, but there are several issues with the NHS as well... that stance always seems popular to those who sit around home and don actually work or put money into the system.

[Jmustang1968]

Why do you care if someone wants to spend money for something you can get without spending money? The Diablo III money market is Blizzard saying "Yes, we realize that people have been selling items for cash throughout the entirety of Diablo II's existance, so we're going to make it safer for people who want to engage in this practice. (and get a cut ourselves)" That sounds very reasonable to me, and if you don't want to spend real money on virtual items you can just farm the items up yourself.

I can understand being pissed if you are required to spend extra money to get the best stuff. That's selling power and I think it's a bad thing. But giving people the option of either spending time or money to pimp themselves out? I don't see the harm there.

This is called pay to win. The most important thing in games like Diablo III is how much money you have in real life. Player skill or the amount of time you play the game is not as important as spending real money.

This completely destroys the game. If you want to make progress on the game, you would be better off working overtime at your job than actually playing the fucking game. The strongest players in Diablo III will be people who spend thousands of dollars on the auction house. It is complete fucking bullshit.

Games like this are designed in a way to encourage players to keep spending real money. The real money auction house does not improve the game at all. Blizzard is only doing it because they want more money. They don't care about affecting the quality of the game. They put a positive spin on it, and people fell for it. It's disgusting. Why are gamers so fucking stupid?

Skill factor is still a huge part of it. Most people see it as a time saver. They don't want to take the time to farm the items, they just want them now to get involved with better gear. Only a few elite will be th best and you are saying you can't enjoy the game if you aren't the best or that if others buy items?

This was happening anyway, atleast now blizz will control the market better. This is coming from someone who plays these types of games and doesn't spend real money on them and gets a lot of enjoyment out of it.

[Inazuma]

@MrPopo

I've played various Phantasy Star games online, Diablo I & II, and also Dungeon Fighter Online. I have spent more time playing these types of games than everything else combined. Just Phantasy Star Universe by itself I played for 8 thousand hours.

Whenever these games are pay to win, I don't enjoy them. My favorite thing to do is improve my character and get stronger. When the most efficient way to do that is to spend real money, it really sucks. I can play constantly farming my own gear, but I will never come anywhere close to someone who just drops a few hundred dollars to instantly accomplish the same thing.

When the game officially supports RMT, the game suffers. Real money becomes the most important thing. I am very competitive, even in PvE games. I don't like the idea of people progressing faster just because they spent real money. If there is PvP, it becomes a complete fucking joke.

Basically, I want games to be fair. It's fine if they have monthly fees. Older MMOs all had monthly fees and everything worked out fine. If someone bought from a Chinese gold seller, they would be looked down upon by most players. If caught, they would be banned. They also risked getting hacked and scammed when they did it. It was fine that way. I know it's impossible to completely remove RMT.

If Phantasy Star Online 2 is pay to win, I won't play it. Even though it is my most anticipated game.

[RyaNtheSlayA]

@MrPopo

I've played various Phantasy Star games online, Diablo I & II, and also Dungeon Fighter Online. I have spent more time playing these types of games than everything else combined. Just Phantasy Star Universe by itself I played for 8 thousand hours.

Whenever these games are pay to win, I don't enjoy them. My favorite thing to do is improve my character and get stronger. When the most efficient way to do that is to spend real money, it really sucks. I can play constantly farming my own gear, but I will never come anywhere close to someone who just drops a few hundred dollars to instantly accomplish the same thing.

When the game officially supports RMT, the game suffers. Real money becomes the most important thing. I am very competitive, even in PvE games. I don't like the idea of people progressing faster just because they spent real money. If there is PvP, it becomes a complete fucking joke.

Basically, I want games to be fair. It's fine if they have monthly fees. Older MMOs all had monthly fees and everything worked out fine. If someone bought from a Chinese gold seller, they would be looked down upon by most players. If caught, they would be banned. They also risked getting hacked and scammed when they did it. It was fine that way. I know it's impossible to completely remove RMT.

If Phantasy Star Online 2 is pay to win, I won't play it. Even though it is my most anticipated game.

I agree with Inazuma word for word in his arguments. I was excited for Diablo III but the second I learned about the real money auction house it became the first game I've actually decided to boycott.

That's not to say real money for in game items is all bad. Team Fortress 2 is a notable example. Nothing in the Mann Co. store is required or gives you more power. The game is balanced to where the default weapons are the best weapons in general, with the other weapons giving perks for different playstyles and situations.

[MrPopo]

[I agree with Inazuma word for word in his arguments. I was excited for Diablo III but the second I learned about the real money auction house it became the first game I've actually decided to boycott.

Again, Diablo III vs. Diablo II is the same with regards to what money can buy you. THE. SAME. You could spend money to get the best shit in Diablo II. You can spend money to get the best shit in Diablo III. Stop acting like this is suddenly going to ruin things forever.

I'm bolding the next part so that Inazuma can stop glossing over it:

Someone has to farm up the item before you can buy it.

Which really makes it more of a case of paying someone real money for their account; we're just breaking up their account into its constituent parts. So you can farm it up yourself, or you can pay someone to farm it up for you. And you need to stop discounting player skill from the equation. Sure, I can buy all the best items, but I'm going to suck balls at first until I've spent a good amount of time learning how to play the character.

That's not to say real money for in game items is all bad. Team Fortress 2 is a notable example. Nothing in the Mann Co. store is required or gives you more power. The game is balanced to where the default weapons are the best weapons in general, with the other weapons giving perks for different playstyles and situations.

o_O I can think of several alternate weapons which are stronger than the default weapons in 90% of situations, and I can think of a few which are stronger than the default, period.

Basically, I want games to be fair.

And this is where I see the main problem. You have a different definition of fair from me. To me fair is that everyone has the same opportunity to get the best gear in the game. Diablo III will be fair by that standard. Everything in the game is a random drop and you can get it if you spend enough time. You can also shortcut the system if you like. I'm going to contrast it with Gunbound, which is not a fair game on the item servers (or at least, that was the case back when I played it years ago). Several items in Gunbound can only be purchased with real money. So if you wanted to play with items you had to spend real money to be optimal. That is not fair.

[TornadoCreator]

And I would say I am glad I don't live in a nanny state type government that you do. The british economy and the rest of europes is going to hell right now as well. The cost of living has skyrocketed. I wouldn't be throwing stones in glass houses.

I am not going to get into detailed political debate typing on my cell phone, but there are several issues with the NHS as well... that stance always seems popular to those who sit around home and don actually work or put money into the system.

Well, if you don't want to debate on your phone, wait until you get home. I'll still be here.

You're honestly against universal healthcare? Really? If so you're are an idiot. This is not a debate, this is not opinion. This is fact. Universal healthcare works. Every single European country, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan and every single industrialised country in the fucking world except USA has universal healthcare. USA even sends money to other countries in the form of foreign aid, to help them establish this very system. The American Healthcare System is broken. It doesn't work, it leaves millions without healthcare, those with healthcare only use it when they're close to fucking death because they're afraid it'll cost too much because their insurance will avoid paying out at every turn. Why? Because that's what insurance does, they make their money by justifying why you're not covered. You honestly think people "sit around at home and don't put money into the system", what the fuck do you think welfare is? You have exactly the same system. The only difference is, many people who can work, do work and do pay taxes don't get health coverage. Why? Because rich Americans are selfish pricks.

You want to justify selfishness. You want to justify greed. Fine, then you are a cruel and awful human being. I'm happy to pay tax in order to ensure people are treated well, are healthy and happy. This is a good thing. You want to keep your money and watch people suffer. Correct? No? What to argue this point. Come on then big bad Republican, get off your arse and justify yourself. Why should you have that money? Or more specifically. Why the fuck should the CEO who does fuck all, who never works a decent hard days work in his fucking life have millions while others working for his company for minimum fucking wage have to die on the streets or rack up rediculous debts because he is too damn greedy? Go on. Justify it... and try doing it without sounding like a cunt. If you can... I'll give you everything I own (profit motive, otherwise you might get bored).

Maybe I have a slightly different view on this. Maybe it's because without this flawed NHS system which you claim doesn't work, without that system, I wouldn't be here. Neither would either of my parents. Why? Because we can't afford the rediculous prices that healthcare reaches when privatised. Chances are I'll never have a full time job, my medical conditions will slowly make my ability to work less and less. I'd love to be able to contribute to society more than what I use... but I can't. By your logic. I should go away and die, to save you the trouble of paying for my medical care. How sick is that?

Maybe I don't pay into the system. But I do contribute. I have friends and family. I use the infrastructure of this country. I effect those around me. Sure it may not be much, but are all our worldly worth valuated by financial means. I sincerely hope not.

I guarentee that every single person reading this post will be upset, offended and even angry at this point. Go on, call the moderators, report the post, get me banned. I don't care. Because if you can't swallow this point, you're not worth my time... all of you. This is very serious issue and I will not sit back while a bunch of self-important little fucking douches, with their smartphones, computers and long list of games, tell me why people without such luxuries deserve such disreguard. You have no idea what it feels like to go without, because if you did you wouldn't be so fucking selfish.

Should we have a fair and balanced discussion. Not with Americans. You think fair and balanced means equal time for Democrat and Republican viewpoints. I consider you both right wing, Republicans offensively right wing. I'm a Socialist and proud, I have compassion and dignity. I care about people on a level greater than just myself. I consider the Republican viewpoint to be barbaric, and if you expect to be able to make posts like that, as though you have some high and mightly political position. You better be prepared to justify it....

WELL?!

PS: For those who require a less moral and emotionally focused argument. I'd like to point out, the NHS costs less per person in the UK than the combined costs of government buyouts that the federal government is forced into when Americans cannot afford their medical bills. When they find the debt too great and are forced bankrupt, who picks up the bill... the tax payers. So not only is our system more compassionate and fair, but it costs our government less as well... USA you're a fucking failure, you can't even manage greedy properly. The ONLY people who come out on top with the American healthcare system is the fucking insurance companies... and you let them, what idiots are you?

[ryanofcali]

Fuck you limey cunt, I'm sure those Brits who actually work don't really like their money going to cheeky cunts like you to get online and bitch at Americans.

[RyaNtheSlayA]

/snip/

And yeah, TornadoCreator. Stop with the fucking American hate. Seriously, you don't live here, and I highly doubt you have a good understanding of how things work over here. I don't particularly like the way it is here, but your broad generalizations and general arrogance is getting old.

[Jmustang1968]

And I would say I am glad I don't live in a nanny state type government that you do. The british economy and the rest of europes is going to hell right now as well. The cost of living has skyrocketed. I wouldn't be throwing stones in glass houses.

I am not going to get into detailed political debate typing on my cell phone, but there are several issues with the NHS as well... that stance always seems popular to those who sit around home and don actually work or put money into the system.

Well, if you don't want to debate on your phone, wait until you get home. I'll still be here.

You're honestly against universal healthcare? Really? If so you're are an idiot. This is not a debate, this is not opinion. This is fact. Universal healthcare works. Every single European country, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan and every single industrialised country in the fucking world except USA has universal healthcare. USA even sends money to other countries in the form of foreign aid, to help them establish this very system. The American Healthcare System is broken. It doesn't work, it leaves millions without healthcare, those with healthcare only use it when they're close to fucking death because they're afraid it'll cost too much because their insurance will avoid paying out at every turn. Why? Because that's what insurance does, they make their money by justifying why you're not covered. You honestly think people "sit around at home and don't put money into the system", what the fuck do you think welfare is? You have exactly the same system. The only difference is, many people who can work, do work and do pay taxes don't get health coverage. Why? Because rich Americans are selfish pricks.

You want to justify selfishness. You want to justify greed. Fine, then you are a cruel and awful human being. I'm happy to pay tax in order to ensure people are treated well, are healthy and happy. This is a good thing. You want to keep your money and watch people suffer. Correct? No? What to argue this point. Come on then big bad Republican, get off your arse and justify yourself. Why should you have that money? Or more specifically. Why the fuck should the CEO who does fuck all, who never works a decent hard days work in his fucking life have millions while others working for his company for minimum fucking wage have to die on the streets or rack up rediculous debts because he is too damn greedy? Go on. Justify it... and try doing it without sounding like a cunt. If you can... I'll give you everything I own (profit motive, otherwise you might get bored).

Maybe I have a slightly different view on this. Maybe it's because without this flawed NHS system which you claim doesn't work, without that system, I wouldn't be here. Neither would either of my parents. Why? Because we can't afford the rediculous prices that healthcare reaches when privatised. Chances are I'll never have a full time job, my medical conditions will slowly make my ability to work less and less. I'd love to be able to contribute to society more than what I use... but I can't. By your logic. I should go away and die, to save you the trouble of paying for my medical care. How sick is that?

Maybe I don't pay into the system. But I do contribute. I have friends and family. I use the infrastructure of this country. I effect those around me. Sure it may not be much, but are all our worldly worth valuated by financial means. I sincerely hope not.

I guarentee that every single person reading this post will be upset, offended and even angry at this point. Go on, call the moderators, report the post, get me banned. I don't care. Because if you can't swallow this point, you're not worth my time... all of you. This is very serious issue and I will not sit back while a bunch of self-important little fucking douches, with their smartphones, computers and long list of games, tell me why people without such luxuries deserve such disreguard. You have no idea what it feels like to go without, because if you did you wouldn't be so fucking selfish.

Should we have a fair and balanced discussion. Not with Americans. You think fair and balanced means equal time for Democrat and Republican viewpoints. I consider you both right wing, Republicans offensively right wing. I'm a Socialist and proud, I have compassion and dignity. I care about people on a level greater than just myself. I consider the Republican viewpoint to be barbaric, and if you expect to be able to make posts like that, as though you have some high and mightly political position. You better be prepared to justify it....

WELL?!

PS: For those who require a less moral and emotionally focused argument. I'd like to point out, the NHS costs less per person in the UK than the combined costs of government buyouts that the federal government is forced into when Americans cannot afford their medical bills. When they find the debt too great and are forced bankrupt, who picks up the bill... the tax payers. So not only is our system more compassionate and fair, but it costs our government less as well... USA you're a fucking failure, you can't even manage greedy properly. The ONLY people who come out on top with the American healthcare system is the fucking insurance companies... and you let them, what idiots are you?

Wow dude, it seems your only contribution seems to be as an incredible douche on a gaming forum since the day you arrived. Ya man socialism rocks, US is a failure. I am not going to debate with sch an irrational and sensationalist person who repeatedly intentionally insults over and over. Only your view point is right and you get aggresively angry and argumentative at every post. Taking with you is an exercise in futility as you can't discuss or reason with an irrational person.

[Inazuma]

@MrPopo

What percentage of Diablo II players do RMT (buying and/or selling)? Maybe 5%? It's a fairly small number, right?

What percentage of Diablo III players do you think will do it? Maybe 95%? If you don't do it, you will be a shitty player. That's how the game was designed. People will find a strong sword, sell it for real money and then use that to justify spending their own money on buying stuff from the auction house. "Well, I just made $100 selling a sword. I can use this money to buy that magic wand I want."

It's not just about the number of players who do it. The fact that it is officially allowed makes a huge fucking difference. Instead of being shunned/kicked/blacklisted/banned for buying gold, you will be viewed as a shitty player if you don't do it. That's because you actually will be a shitty player if you don't use the auction house. You would be handicapping yourself by not taking advantage of it. Real money is the most important thing in pay to win games like Diablo III, so if you don't use real money, you will be gimped.