Do you really care about video games?

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AppleQueso

Re: Do you really care about video games?

Post by AppleQueso »

J T wrote:
StuntDouble wrote:involved, I think that's probably the last thing we want to do. How many industries have actually been helped by more government involvement?
This is about protecting the consumer, in which case government regulation is almost required because companies will do whatever they can to make money. That's the whole point of regulation, and the commonly expressed republican/tea party belief that regulation is unilaterally a bad thing is simply wrong. Sometimes regulation is needed, sometimes it hinders efficient business. It should be examined on a case-by-case basis.

I think this guy is a little nuts, and a little on point. He's mellodramatic about what he believes will happen if games switch to a subscription service and he's spilling over with rage and a bit of paranoia. Nevertheless, he has a valid point that it does appear that the gaming industry is trying to move to a model of gaming where games are a subscription or rental based service and no longer a product. This would have negative consequences for consumer ownership, which will also erode the ability to maintain long-term consumer access to games that are important to gaming history. Also, much of this is happening in sly ways that the majority of consumers are unaware of. For example, nobody advertises that buying some of Capcom's recent games will only allow you to resell part of the game, and therefore immediately has little value on the secondary market. These trends towards the elimination of physical media and even of ownership over digital media are troubling, though digital games services such as gog.com have done quite a lot to actually preserve gaming history while not taking away consumer rights and should be commended.

I like the option to rent and subscribe to games honestly. Most games I played in my youth were rentals, not purchases. Now that I'm older, most of my games come from online Steam sales, which some would argue is also a rental, since the games require an online check in, cannot be resold, and ownership is not guaranteed in the EULA in the event of Valve going under. It does trouble me as a consumer to know that the longevity of my access to my Steam games depends on the longevity of the company's success. It is also unfair to other online game distributors because I feel, whether I'm satisfied with Valve's service or not, that I need to continue to buy my games from them to support them and retain my collection. That being said, Steam is a great service and I'm willing to use it because the low prices offset the risk for me.

I do think consumer rights are not being factored into the equation enough as far as all of these diigital rights business matters are concerned. I don't know if a gamers union is the right tactic, but it might be. I wouldn't want this guy representing me as he's too blustery and prone to exaggeration, but I think people should be educated about how the monetization schemes of the digital age can end up negatively affecting your rights as a consumer. It will take a grassroots kind of consumer movement to spread that message because it won't likely come from the industry, unless there are more companies like GOG that are vocal about this sort of thing.
Fantastic post. Sums up my feelings on this whole matter pretty much perfectly.

I admire what this guy is doing, but I worry that he might give off the wrong impression that we're all just overly paranoid and not to be taken seriously.
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Inazuma
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Re: Do you really care about video games?

Post by Inazuma »

I admit that I thought he was a little crazy at first but after I watched more of his videos, I realized that it mostly comes from being extremely passionate about video games. He is also brutally honest and blunt in how he speaks, which is a little overwhelming to handle until you adjust to it. Overall, he is a very good man and is trying his best to improve things.

It is very easy to look at the disgusting reality of modern gaming and give up on it. You gotta respect someone who stands up and tries to fight for what they care about. It will be hard to change things for the better, but it's not impossible. The first step is awareness, and people like this should be commended for doing something positive to help others.

Anyone know of any other Youtubers or anything along these lines? Is there anyone else out there trying to save gaming? Please post links here.
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Xeogred
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Re: Do you really care about video games?

Post by Xeogred »

I basically agree with what brunoafh said a page back. Gaming's just gone really mainstream now and it's here to stay whether we like it or not. It'll just be harder to find the gems and originality from here on. There's tons of issues I have with the state of gaming, but oh well. I've been poor for two years now and at this point I've finally stopped caring about keeping up with all the new games out there and the news sites, since most of it is just about DLC or things I don't care about at all. Even if I start having some income here again soon I don't think my attitude is going to revert back to what it was, it's been a good lesson and for the last year or so I've just been taking my time replaying my old favorites, playing a lot of old games I've been meaning to get to for years, and hit up more of my backlog. The old games aren't going anywhere and as I said earlier recently, can you really ask yourself if you've completely covered the NES, SNES, Genesis, Saturn, PSX, etc library? Probably not. So there's plenty of the goods to keep me busy.

But yeah it feels like I skim joystiq and sites like that maybe once a week now instead of daily. I just completely don't care anymore, and I feel happier because I'm not as outraged about gaming anymore haha.
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Jmustang1968
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Re: Do you really care about video games?

Post by Jmustang1968 »

This guy is paranoid and delusional. Creating a gaming union to fight Ultimate MvC3 is laughable. The informed gamer knows what they are getting with it. If you don't think the upgrade is worth it, dont buy it.

DLC packs arent completing unfinished games either. We have had expansion packs for years now. Most are mini expansion packs or cosmetic skins or customizable crap. Again, I have yet to get a game that I had to get DLC to get the complete game. Before you got what was on the disc and nothing else, atleast this way the games are supported a bit more down the line to get more if you want more.

The game makers will make what sells. Right now, FPS have been in and selling big. Back in the day, how many mario clones and generic rip off platformers were there? Then the RPG phase, etc etc...

DRM is annoying, but it is the publishers attempted answer to fight piracy, as misguided as it may be. We dont need to form some bs union to get the government or lobbyists to control what the game companies make.
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MrPopo
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Re: Do you really care about video games?

Post by MrPopo »

He is also brutally honest and blunt in how he speaks, which is a little overwhelming to handle until you adjust to it.
Where I was raised this was known as being a jackass with a lack of social skills that undermine any points you try to make.
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Re: Do you really care about video games?

Post by (-_-) »

I think a lot of this is just ranting and he's definitely a bit paranoid. If you are trying to get taken seriously, the last thing you do is throw out claims of how long you've had insider information on something. Regardless of whether you knew this was going to happen or not, it's not relevant to the argument you are trying to make. Yelling out I knew this would happen, and now it is, so you should listen to me, is a pretty big logical fallacy. Present me with a calm, reasonable, and convincing argument and I'll listen.

And forming unions and lobbies for this sounds like the fastest most efficient way to turn games into systematically manufactured products, instead of, you know, games.
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Korpi
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Re: Do you really care about video games?

Post by Korpi »

What a businessman's wet dream it is, when gamer plays in social virtual environment and wants to improve their status by buying virtual items, that take minimal funds to create and can be copied infinitely. Diablo III will probably be prime example of this. Some people support the in-game virtual item Ebay idea by the reasoning, that they don't have time to play the game so they pay to get through the game, that makes whole lot of sense.

I'm tired of it all, DLC, DRM, online requirements, advertising within game, virtual item sales, X-Com and Syndicate getting FPS spin-offs, Angry Birds selling like no tomorrow. I'll just fire up Mega Drive or buy game from GoG and show middle finger to them all.
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Jmustang1968
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Re: Do you really care about video games?

Post by Jmustang1968 »

Korpi wrote:What a businessman's wet dream it is, when gamer plays in social virtual environment and wants to improve their status by buying virtual items, that take minimal funds to create and can be copied infinitely. Diablo III will probably be prime example of this. Some people support the in-game virtual item Ebay idea by the reasoning, that they don't have time to play the game so they pay to get through the game, that makes whole lot of sense.

I'm tired of it all, DLC, DRM, online requirements, advertising within game, virtual item sales, X-Com and Syndicate getting FPS spin-offs, Angry Birds selling like no tomorrow. I'll just fire up Mega Drive or buy game from GoG and show middle finger to them all.
How does optional extra stuff like dlc bother you so much?

I hate DRM, and don't like the syndicate fps idea, but dlc is just extra shit.
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Re: Do you really care about video games?

Post by TornadoCreator »

Segatari2002 wrote:
J T wrote:This is about protecting the consumer, in which case government regulation is almost required because companies will do whatever they can to make money. That's the whole point of regulation, and the commonly expressed republican/tea party belief that regulation is unilaterally a bad thing is simply wrong. Sometimes regulation is needed, sometimes it hinders efficient business. It should be examined on a case-by-case basis.
Was that really necessary? When has it ever been wrong in this country to hold a different belief than another person? I, for one, happen to think the liberal/progressive idea of still more regulations is simply wrong. I'm not trying to instigate an argument, far from it. All I'm asking that since this is a gaming themed site, do we really need that kind of political jabbing going on in here? There are other forums for that debate and it only seems to lead to angry outbursts and regretted sayings all around.
Yes it was necessary, stop acting butt-hurt just because he disagrees with the extremist views that Republicans have nowadays on regulations and governmental involvement (and yes, they are extremist. Anyone outside of USA listening to rants about how "Obamacare" will destroy your way of life honestly considers your countries political situation to be a joke. We're laughing at you America). The fact is, we're discussing a political issue here, and his comment was justified and correct. The Republican taxation model doesn't work, their anti universal healthcare stance is rediculous and their heavy leaning towards corporate interests make them appear to be anything but fair. If you don't want a debate with political jabbing you're going to be very bored on any forum because everything comes down to politics at some points. Based on your "I'm oh so offended" response, I assume you're a Republican, and on the internet that's asking for trouble. Outside of USA, the Republican party is a joke, it's an extreme right-wing party that in Europe would be nothing more than a minor special interests party. Considering that you name "progressive" as though that's in opposition to your party, you're going to be very offended a lot of the time on the internet... because this is the internet, where progressive media and social reform starts. Now stop being "offended" at the drop of a hat, it's pathetic.
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RyaNtheSlayA
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Re: Do you really care about video games?

Post by RyaNtheSlayA »

Korpi wrote:What a businessman's wet dream it is, when gamer plays in social virtual environment and wants to improve their status by buying virtual items, that take minimal funds to create and can be copied infinitely. Diablo III will probably be prime example of this. Some people support the in-game virtual item Ebay idea by the reasoning, that they don't have time to play the game so they pay to get through the game, that makes whole lot of sense.

I'm tired of it all, DLC, DRM, online requirements, advertising within game, virtual item sales, X-Com and Syndicate getting FPS spin-offs, Angry Birds selling like no tomorrow. I'll just fire up Mega Drive or buy game from GoG and show middle finger to them all.
Not to totally derail the topic, but I agree with you when it comes to X-Com but not Syndicate. Provided the developer isn't just trying to cash in, Syndicate's gameplay can translate to a first person shooter. X-Com's can not.

The guy does seem a bit... off. He has some good points but I'd prefer they were presented in a calm constructive manner.

The issue is the majority of gamers doesn't really care about being nickled and dimed by DLC and subscriptions.

However, I maintain that there will for at least 10 or more years, be physical game media, as not everybody (especially in the USA) has a great internet connection. In fact, very few have the ability to watch 720p YouTube without stuttering, let alone games which also require a good upload speed (which is terrible in the US as well).
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