Sony amend PSN ToS which waives consumer rights.

[AppleQueso]

Pure greed, Sony knows the drones don't care. Just another move to make all games temporary. Sony put this on their games a long time ago. Note in the black about removing online portion of a game at anytime. Online gaming, DRM and DLC all controlled by Sony keep or remove off PSN.

I think you may be a little confused by what that means to remove online features. It just means that they have the right to pull the online play and extra downloadable extras off the net at any time, which is really no different than EA or 2K Sports pulling their older sports titles off XBLA/PSN every year when their latest game comes out. They're merely putting this note on the back of games to protect them from being sued.

Random guy: "Hey I bought this game cause I wanted to play it online!?"
Sony: "Sorry, we have the right to pull the online services at any time. Just like anyone else"

I always figured it was put there so nobody can sue them 10 years from now when they shut off the severs.

[Niode]

Is the fact that they can "take away" content something new in this ToS? I was under the impression that basically all of the console downloadbable services had long made this a stipulation. I have never downloaded a single game under the pretense that I will "own" it any way, just that it will be available to play on the machine I've downloaded it to unless I delete it. I ASSUME that, as was the case with original Xbox DLC, none of the downloadable content I've purchased this gen will still be officially available after this generation.

What's new is the arbitration/CAS stipulation, which I assumed was already there as well since it is in most ToS. And, as stated, if there is some truly egregious problem (e.g. a repeat of the hacking mess), than no ToS would be ironclad against a CAS.

It used to be different.

Your existing PSN wallet will be used forto purchase of content licenses or services offered on Qriocity. You must transition your Qriocity account to a PSN account for purchase of content or purchase services available on PSN.

The new ToS reads:

Your existing PSN wallet will be used forto purchase of content licenses or services offered on SEN. You must transition your SEN account to a PSN account for purchase to license content or purchase services available on PSN.

Quite a big change there...

[dsheinem]

Is the fact that they can "take away" content something new in this ToS? I was under the impression that basically all of the console downloadbable services had long made this a stipulation. I have never downloaded a single game under the pretense that I will "own" it any way, just that it will be available to play on the machine I've downloaded it to unless I delete it. I ASSUME that, as was the case with original Xbox DLC, none of the downloadable content I've purchased this gen will still be officially available after this generation.

What's new is the arbitration/CAS stipulation, which I assumed was already there as well since it is in most ToS. And, as stated, if there is some truly egregious problem (e.g. a repeat of the hacking mess), than no ToS would be ironclad against a CAS.

It used to be different.

Your existing PSN wallet will be used forto purchase of content licenses or services offered on Qriocity. You must transition your Qriocity account to a PSN account for purchase of content or purchase services available on PSN.

The new ToS reads:

Your existing PSN wallet will be used forto purchase of content licenses or services offered on SEN. You must transition your SEN account to a PSN account for purchase to license content or purchase services available on PSN.

Quite a big change there...

Hmm, what is all the Qriocity and SEN stuff surrounding the change? Is that context important if I don't use Qriocity or SEN?

[Niode]

Is the fact that they can "take away" content something new in this ToS? I was under the impression that basically all of the console downloadbable services had long made this a stipulation. I have never downloaded a single game under the pretense that I will "own" it any way, just that it will be available to play on the machine I've downloaded it to unless I delete it. I ASSUME that, as was the case with original Xbox DLC, none of the downloadable content I've purchased this gen will still be officially available after this generation.

What's new is the arbitration/CAS stipulation, which I assumed was already there as well since it is in most ToS. And, as stated, if there is some truly egregious problem (e.g. a repeat of the hacking mess), than no ToS would be ironclad against a CAS.

It used to be different.

Your existing PSN wallet will be used forto purchase of content licenses or services offered on Qriocity. You must transition your Qriocity account to a PSN account for purchase of content or purchase services available on PSN.

The new ToS reads:

Your existing PSN wallet will be used forto purchase of content licenses or services offered on SEN. You must transition your SEN account to a PSN account for purchase to license content or purchase services available on PSN.

Quite a big change there...

Hmm, what is all the Qriocity and SEN stuff surrounding the change? Is that context important if I don't use Qriocity or SEN?

I think that's how they've justified the change in the TOS, they've changed the umbrella for all Sony's online services to be Sony Entertainment Network.

[Hobie-wan]

For those that want to keep their arbitration rights, this has the relevant part of the new TOS. Even though I probably don't have plans to sue, I might send a letter anyway just to be an asshole back at Sony.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011 ... awsuit.ars

[Gamerforlife]

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With the direction gaming is going, its makes you wonder if people will just get fed up with all this downloading crap and greedy business tactics and just stop playing. Or maybe people may just get bored of gaming? I mean how many people can you shoot with a floating gun or how many dragons can you slay before it starts to feel stale? Or do you think video games have gotten to big to have a crash similar to what happened in the 80s?

I missed this post before. The way I see it, gaming as we know it will die once we have virtual reality capabilities like Star Trek or Minority Report. Look at were we are now with motion control and 3D televisions. Where do you think this will all lead too? When virtual reality like we've seen in sci fi becomes real, it will all be about the big companies who control and sell the technology. We won't have game designers anymore. We won't have game controllers. Nothing we know as "video games" will exist anymore

Video games will be dead

[Hobie-wan]

So there was a firmware update as well as the new TOS.

.I mean how many people can you shoot with a floating gun or how many dragons can you slay before it starts to feel stale?

How many times can you hit a ball and run around 4 bases? How many times can you force a ball into a goal? How many times can you pass out cards and trade them for better ones?

Obviously reality introduces a lot more factors that affect a game, but a different game with a similar feel is still like playing in a different court or whatnot.

[D.D.D.]

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With the direction gaming is going, its makes you wonder if people will just get fed up with all this downloading crap and greedy business tactics and just stop playing. Or maybe people may just get bored of gaming? I mean how many people can you shoot with a floating gun or how many dragons can you slay before it starts to feel stale? Or do you think video games have gotten to big to have a crash similar to what happened in the 80s?

I missed this post before. The way I see it, gaming as we know it will die once we have virtual reality capabilities like Star Trek or Minority Report. Look at were we are now with motion control and 3D televisions. Where do you think this will all lead too? When virtual reality like we've seen in sci fi becomes real, it will all be about the big companies who control and sell the technology. We won't have game designers anymore. We won't have game controllers. Nothing we know as "video games" will exist anymore

Video games will be dead

Even if we get the HoloDeck in our lifetimes, I still will want to play SNES games. Shit, running around in the HoloDeck has got to be exhausting like, real life.

[Gamerforlife]

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With the direction gaming is going, its makes you wonder if people will just get fed up with all this downloading crap and greedy business tactics and just stop playing. Or maybe people may just get bored of gaming? I mean how many people can you shoot with a floating gun or how many dragons can you slay before it starts to feel stale? Or do you think video games have gotten to big to have a crash similar to what happened in the 80s?

I missed this post before. The way I see it, gaming as we know it will die once we have virtual reality capabilities like Star Trek or Minority Report. Look at were we are now with motion control and 3D televisions. Where do you think this will all lead too? When virtual reality like we've seen in sci fi becomes real, it will all be about the big companies who control and sell the technology. We won't have game designers anymore. We won't have game controllers. Nothing we know as "video games" will exist anymore

Video games will be dead

Even if we get the HoloDeck in our lifetimes, I still will want to play SNES games. Shit, running around in the HoloDeck has got to be exhausting like, real life.

LOL, I'm right there with ya. When virtual reality takes over, retro gaming will be the ONLY gaming. I'm sure racketboy will be more awesome than ever in the future!

[the7k]

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With the direction gaming is going, its makes you wonder if people will just get fed up with all this downloading crap and greedy business tactics and just stop playing. Or maybe people may just get bored of gaming? I mean how many people can you shoot with a floating gun or how many dragons can you slay before it starts to feel stale? Or do you think video games have gotten to big to have a crash similar to what happened in the 80s?

I missed this post before. The way I see it, gaming as we know it will die once we have virtual reality capabilities like Star Trek or Minority Report. Look at were we are now with motion control and 3D televisions. Where do you think this will all lead too? When virtual reality like we've seen in sci fi becomes real, it will all be about the big companies who control and sell the technology. We won't have game designers anymore. We won't have game controllers. Nothing we know as "video games" will exist anymore

Video games will be dead

Video games as we currently enjoy them will always be alive so long as there is a market for them. Even if that market shrinks to an incredible degree, as long as the market is there someone will make a product for that market.

On topic - this is just another case of corporate greed. It's bad, but not bad enough for me to start looking to get the same experience with another company (especially when that other company is charging $60/year). To all those who feel strongly enough about this to take actual action - congrats. Wish I could think in as idealized a way as you do, but honestly, no matter where I look, it's just the same shit with a different logo.

At least you are sticking with your guns. At least you aren't lying back and accepting it the same way other folks do with the 'subtle' ways companies these days punish used game sales and such.

I suppose I've simply accepted that content would not always be available that I've bought through digital means. Considering the concept has been around in the console world since The Sega Channel (good luck finding a US copy of Mega Man: The Wily Wars) and even longer for us PC gamers (which is why modern games lacking dedicated server options is such a serious issue), we've had a long time to get used to the idea.

Yes, Sony could up and remove all the games on their network as a big 'fuck you'. Do you really think any company would willingly do that, ever? Ever ever? Seriously? I mean, to think that a company would willingly create bad publicity for itself is downright asinine.

But hey, whatever. PSN still has Midway games up for download. Where are XBLA's Midway games? Where's Double Dragon? Heck, Microsoft even stated once in an interview that they planned to take down XBLA games that were 6 months old and didn't receive Metacritic ratings of 65 of higher. As far as I know, nothing has actually come of this - and for good reason. Why would you piss off your users for no real reason at all?