Should America or Japan feel ashame of the lack of "Jrpg"

[The Last Horseman]

I'm all for JRPG's, but I don't like turn based battles. They bore me, except in special cases, like Earthbound, which I found very fun. I'm also not fond of the more recent not being able to tell if it is a guy/girl thing. It's not as much xenophobia or anything as much not knowing how I should look at the character as a person, and how they interact with other characters. It can get confusing.

[Jmustang1968]

I guess I see grinding as different from the rest of you. To me, grinding is what you did back in the days of DQ1 of walking back and forth in order to level up so you don't get slaughtered. And WRPGs of the time were just as grind heavy. I haven't had to grind in a JRPG in years. The difference between JRPGs and WRPGs in that regard seems to me to be that JRPGs tend to have longer dungeons with a more encounters so it still feels grindy to people. But the only time I grind these days is to reach game breaking levels so I can laugh at the final bosses, not so I can proceed in the storyline.

Actually I think this is a fair point to make. A lot of you guys springboarded off of what I said, but in truth some of what folks complain about in JRPGs did also happen in WRPGs, such as grinding. There are folks who grind in WRPGs. I know, I just played through one, and there were a couple of points where I grinded before a big battle I knew was coming up, just so I could eek my characters up a single level.

Also, as far as combat is concerned, WRPGs have had moments of being worse. Amongst WRPG fans, Baldur's Gate is held in high esteem, but melee combat largely consisted of point, click, and wait at the time. Spells added a little more, but not really. However, having played more recent WRPGs in the same vein, I've watched the combat systems get more fleshed out and better handled.

I've also seen combat handled in ways I generally don't hold highly, such as the Elder Scrolls games. Sure, I often play combat heavy characters, but even though I love those games for their freedom, I have never really felt like the combat quite matched up. But I have seen attempts at innovation, such as adding in chargeable attacks or mixing magic and melee possibilities in the upcoming title.

And that's a big part of what I believe folks are getting at: innovation has been poorly lacking in general in JRPGs. I can sit down with a WRPG and understand that it's from a different generation because of changes in the combat system. For a JRPG, only the graphical upgrade tells me it's a more modern game. Yes, there are JRPGs with interesting and innovative combat systems...at least I think so. The Tales and Star Ocean series, Xenogears, Legend of Dragoon, Legend of Legaia... these have tried different styles of combat, some of which worked quite well. Even the FF series has seen some tweaks to how its rounds are handled, though arguably not that much. And of the titles I mentioned, they all debuted during the SNES and PS1 days.

I think my biggest complaint though with JRPGs in terms of lack of innovation is the story. Nowadays I see the same thing over and over again: a group of teens with issues take on a god or a world-destroying entity and solve their emo problems along the way while asserting how great love and friendship are. I'm tired of this.

Hmm JRPGs have tried to change combat systems. FFXII and XIII had much different combat systems then those of old. Problem is JRPG purists usually dont like them. Resonance of Fate also has a unique combat system.

I also really like the Baldur's Gate combat. It was more of a strategy type of combat, especially when you had a full cast of 6 in the party. Current WRPGs are more in the action RPG vein. I played Dragon Age on the PC like I did BG 1 and 2 of the past.

I do agree on story. JRPGs often have juvenile plot devices and characters I dislike or hate. This has only been made worse by voice acting and more realistic graphics. I despise most of the FFXIII cast, while I love almost all of VI's cast. Plot devices are derivative and generally boring, and the writing is usually poor. A character will usually have some asinine obvious comment or overly dramatic response. This maybe why I also typically like modern strategy RPGs over traditional jrpgs. Both probably have a bad or nonsensical story and writing, but atleast in the strategy RPG I can have tactical combat and build up a force of characters. Every now and again a gem like Tactics Ogre comes along that has a really good story and fun game mechanics. This is also what basically sets FFT apart from FFTA. The gameplay and characters are a bit more robust in FFTA, but the story is absolutely horrible.

[Inazuma]

I'm also not fond of the more recent not being able to tell if it is a guy/girl thing. It's not as much xenophobia or anything as much not knowing how I should look at the character as a person, and how they interact with other characters. It can get confusing.

It's a difference of cultures and also art styles. Japanese people will be able to tell what gender a character is. If for some reason, they aren't sure, they should be able to figure it out by the way the character speaks.

Also, many Japanese people consider very thin and beautiful men to be attractive. The big and buff, macho manly man type is not as popular as it is in America.

Personally, I like how Japan draws their male characters. I think it's attractive too. When I see the type of male characters that are popular in Western games, they look very ugly to me.


Aren't they cute? One is a boy and one is a girl.

[Flake]

Yeah but which?

[jfrost]

Here's the thing to me: everyone can complain all they want about the Japanese style and how they don't like their bishonen fixation, calling them stale and so on.

It seems, however, that the muscular American macho hero hasn't seen many changes since time immemorial. I sense a bit of hipocrisy when guys complain about JRPGs because of that. American comic books, movies and games aren't known for making great strides and pushing boundaries in character design.

[Flake]

American comic books, movies and games aren't known for making great strides and pushing boundaries in character design.

Sorry but that's not true. Comics have changed like crazy. 1950's character designs are nothing like 1930's designs. Today's designs are crazy different from the 90's. Comic artwork is constantly evolving.

[jfrost]

As much as Japanese designs, then. The muscle-bound hero hasn't gone out of fashion, though, it seems.

[Inazuma]

Here is a video of the boy from the image I posted earlier, in an actual video game. Is he hot or what? ^_^;;

[Gamerforlife]

All I know is that if Ni No Kuni doesn't see an English translation, then everyone should be ashamed.

Look at how beautiful this game is!

That is a very nice looking game.

That looks gorgeous! Looks even prettier than Valkyria Chronicles. If this comes out here I hope it includes an original language sub. I'm not down on dubs, but having that option in games like Valkyria Chronicles just shows an extra bit of class from the people who brought it over. Hint, hint, SquareEnix

[o.pwuaioc]

As much as Japanese designs, then. The muscle-bound hero hasn't gone out of fashion, though, it seems.

Not entirely, but it's not, as it seems to me, as prevalent as the bishonen style. It seems that everyone is portrayed very girlish, while that's hardly typical to any sort of reality. But then again, in Japan 9 year old girls routinely save the world, so...