Should America or Japan feel ashame of the lack of "Jrpg"

[Flake]

I would say that Pokemon is a truer RPG than nearly anything else that comes out of Japan and is called a Role Playing Game.

[jfrost]

Here's the way I see it: The early JRPG's like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy were given the menu based gameplay they were because of the limitations of the then available technology. If you've got a desire to play with stats and fart around a medieval setting, they are great choices.

But it's obvious that those games were meant as poor substitutes for traditional pen and paper RPG's.

As technology evolved the game mechanics should have evolved as well. In the West they have - WRPG's still can't recreate the all encompassing freedom of a table top game yet but they are getting closer and closer.

For the most part JRPG's did not evolve to embrace the opportunities that increased technology brought. Oh yeah, the graphics got better. The music became more intricate. But that's just spackle on a busted ass wall. It looks better but you still have the same core problems.

Menus are fine, and turn-based gameplay is great. There's nothing inherently wrong with them.

Read this: http://sinisterdesign.net/?p=830

[noiseredux]

Here's the way I see it: The early JRPG's like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy were given the menu based gameplay they were because of the limitations of the then available technology. If you've got a desire to play with stats and fart around a medieval setting, they are great choices.

But it's obvious that those games were meant as poor substitutes for traditional pen and paper RPG's.

As technology evolved the game mechanics should have evolved as well. In the West they have - WRPG's still can't recreate the all encompassing freedom of a table top game yet but they are getting closer and closer.

For the most part JRPG's did not evolve to embrace the opportunities that increased technology brought. Oh yeah, the graphics got better. The music became more intricate. But that's just spackle on a busted ass wall. It looks better but you still have the same core problems.

I guess the thing is that I agree with you, but for some reason I enjoy the busted ass wall.

[jfrost]

I would say that Pokemon is a truer RPG than nearly anything else that comes out of Japan and is called a Role Playing Game.

Is it?

I think it's a little ironic that someone bashing Dragon Quest is such a fan of Pokémon, which is arguably as conservative, if not more. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Flake]

Pokemon gives you complete freedom of choice in how you solve the game. You choose what monsters to train, how to train them, how many of them to field, and even how to get ahold of them.

Pokemon Blue was probably the last JRPG I ever fully enjoyed.

[jfrost]

Pokemon gives you complete freedom of choice in how you solve the game. You choose what monsters to train, how to train them, how many of them to field, and even how to get ahold of them.

Pretty much the same kind of freedom Dragon Quest offers you.

Pokemon Blue was probably the last JRPG I ever fully enjoyed.

That's awesome. I don't think your taste is indicative of objectively bad design choices, though.

[Jmustang1968]

BTW the previously mentioned Hyperdimension Neptunia is the most brilliant JRPG in recent years.

I dunno about that one man. Sure, the premise is excellent, and the dialogue had me laughing a few times, but the gameplay itself is just... awful. Now I know whether or not it's actually "fun" or not is nothing but opinion, but I think calling it the most brilliant JRPG in years is a bit of a stretch. Writing and story aside, it's just the same old stuff we've always seen.

yes -- but it's tongue was so firmly in cheek. I totally admit, this is of course total opinion. I'm just saying, I can't think of any recent RPG that had me so hooked as this one.

Hmm interesting topic considering the article I plan to write this thread should give some extra food for thought.

I actually love both western and jrpgs each for their own merits. Some of my top games of all time are baldurs gate 2 and FFVI. The handhelds seem to be the proper platform for jrpgs. The more realistic the graphics attempt to be, the less is left to the imagination. The expense of making full featured titles on current gen consoles is too much a risk for jrpgs. They usually all having something that is lacking. A weak storyline, dumb characters, frame rate issues, or poor voice acting or more than 1.

Western rpgs seem to gain more from the upgrades in technology. Better graphics on characters and worlds with realistic proportions generally fair better then those who have otherwise. I think FFXIII focused so much on game engine and graphics that the rest of the game was rushed. Handhelds now basically allow for the sprite graphics and go back to the roots of jrpgs and alow them a much smaller expense and risk. Conversely, I don't see a western rpg being that good on a handheld.

[Flake]

Pokemon gives you complete freedom of choice in how you solve the game. You choose what monsters to train, how to train them, how many of them to field, and even how to get ahold of them.

Pretty much the same kind of freedom Dragon Quest offers you.

Pokemon Blue was probably the last JRPG I ever fully enjoyed.

That's awesome. I don't think your taste is indicative of objectively bad design choices, though.

My personal tastes are irrelevant. That was meant to be purely anecdotal. I think the Dragon Quest formula has already been sufficiently trounced as derivative and anachronistic.

[Erik_Twice]

Yet you like Pokémon.

I also enjoy internet memes. That doesn't make them good =P

Note that what I like is competitive Pókemon, the single player game suffers from very poor AI and grinding. Were those issues fixed, it would be a far greater game even if the writting and other qualities could be far better.

[MrPopo]

I guess I see grinding as different from the rest of you. To me, grinding is what you did back in the days of DQ1 of walking back and forth in order to level up so you don't get slaughtered. And WRPGs of the time were just as grind heavy. I haven't had to grind in a JRPG in years. The difference between JRPGs and WRPGs in that regard seems to me to be that JRPGs tend to have longer dungeons with a more encounters so it still feels grindy to people. But the only time I grind these days is to reach game breaking levels so I can laugh at the final bosses, not so I can proceed in the storyline.