London riots

[jfrost]

You can attack whatever country you want for whatever reason you feel is justified.

[saturnfan]

Europe's financial issues have tangible repercussions over here. When you guys screw yourselves over, it hurts us as well. There's nothing ridiculous about Americans complaining about the way Europe acts.

And the Schengen zone? how the fuck does that influence you guys?

And of course Saturnfan some Europeans share your sentiments. They are called Anders Behring Breivik, they are called Adolf Hitler.

Seriously you shouldn't be talking about things you have no freaking idea about. We let you have all the guns you want inside your country, let us have all the welfare we want in ours. What's your problem?

What an arrogant response. Just because I don't live in Europe I therefor have no right to an opinion about it, and am subsequently compared to Adolph Hitler? Are all the conservative outposts in Europe in some way related to Hitler now too? What are you even talking about? It's a nonsense statement like that exposes your sophomoric demeanor, and shows me you are very, very immature.

Also, people from Europe criticize the United States all the time, so you are wrong about that too.

[ZeroAX]

You can attack whatever country you want for whatever reason you feel is justified.

Yeah but what's the point? My vote has power. My voice inside my country has power. Should I go outside the American embassy and protest that they should raise taxes? I might protest against a war, cause that's about foreign policy. I'll protest against Syria, cause those are crimes against humanity the government is doing. What's the point of telling others, no of ATTACKING others about how they live their lives? When Inazuma does it everybody attacks him. So what makes this right, and Inazume calling people who believe in god idiots wrong?

[Ack]

And of course Saturnfan some Europeans share your sentiments. They are called Anders Behring Breivik, they are called Adolf Hitler.

Ah, Godwin's Law is being invoked I see.

Is it my fault someone brought immigration as a problem in a country which he doesn't live in? What does that sound to you? Specially on the conservative side. I can understand the liberal side caring about how immigrants are treated in different countries, but why the nationalists?

First off, it is your fault that you resorted to such comparisons almost immediately, the result of which actually makes you look worse as opposed to hindering or debating his argument. Having reread the exchange, you're also the one who went on the offensive concerning his opinions.

Second off, perhaps you should consider that his views may in reality be a consideration for the right to self-determination of each individual nation, not necessarily an intended desire to attack immigration or a unified currency. I don't believe saturnfan necessarily dislikes the thought of people moving from one nation to another, at least not without more input from him on the subject, but perhaps he could be concerned about stronger nations that we have typically been allied with being pulled down by the weaker economic members of the European Union.

The point is I feel you attacked his view but should instead have asked why they formed. If you still disagree, fine, debate as much as you like. But keep it civil, and don't immediately leap to such comparisons with only a limited amount of information. It only serves to make yourself look bad, as opposed to the one you are attempting to counter.

[BoringSupreez]

You have every right to complain about your home country. That's the foundation of democracy XD. Just don't attack other countries for issues inside them. Specially the ones that DON'T have any effect on your life personally.

What a moronic point of view.

So I should attack Brazil for taking measures to reduce poverty when that might risk it's economic boom?

Brazil's economy has little to no effect on Greece. Greece DOES have an effect on the US's economy, and it has been showing in recent months. Your comparison doesn't work.

[jfrost]

You can attack whatever country you want for whatever reason you feel is justified.

Yeah but what's the point? My vote has power. My voice inside my country has power. Should I go outside the American embassy and protest that they should raise taxes? I might protest against a war, cause that's about foreign policy. I'll protest against Syria, cause those are crimes against humanity the government is doing. What's the point of telling others, no of ATTACKING others about how they live their lives? When Inazuma does it everybody attacks him. So what makes this right, and Inazume calling people who believe in god idiots wrong?

I don't know anyone who's attacking you, man. People here are giving their input on how they think other countries are being mismanaged. It's ridiculous to pretend they do not even have the right to.

Or maybe you think we should stay silent when the Zimbabwean government inflates their currency to ridiculous levels. Because, well, you're not a Zimbabwean, why should you have any opinion on the matter?

[ZeroAX]

Well for one saturnfan if you knew anything about Europe you'd know that the immigration problems don't come from within the Union (which is what the Schengen zone is) but from outside immigration.

The only economy in Europe that was indeed default worthy was Greece, but because the markets are uncontrolled by the governments (and you attack the EU for taking sovereign control from countries, when it's the markets which have taken control of both Europe and the US) economies like Italy's and Ireland's which could fix themselves under normal circumstances are now in jeopardy.


So it's hard to talk about issues inside Europe if you are an outsider, cause it's so hard to understand them for you. No actually nobody DOES know what is really wrong with Europe even on the inside. That's the problem. France and Germany have more expensive wages than Spain and Italy, so how will austerity measures change anything when that doesn't seem to be the reason France and Germany are doing better?

[ZeroAX]

First off, it is your fault that you resorted to such comparisons almost immediately, the result of which actually makes you look worse as opposed to hindering or debating his argument. Having reread the exchange, you're also the one who went on the offensive concerning his opinions.

Second off, perhaps you should consider that his views may in reality be a consideration for the right to self-determination of each individual nation, not necessarily an intended desire to attack immigration or a unified currency. I don't believe saturnfan necessarily dislikes the thought of people moving from one nation to another, at least not without more input from him on the subject, but perhaps he could be concerned about stronger nations that we have typically been allied with being pulled down by the weaker economic members of the European Union.

The point is I feel you attacked his view but should instead have asked why they formed. If you still disagree, fine, debate as much as you like. But keep it civil, and don't immediately leap to such comparisons with only a limited amount of information. It only serves to make yourself look bad, as opposed to the one you are attempting to counter.

yeah yeah ok you are right. Just didn't understand what immigration of all things had to do with it. And because I rarely attack the US (except gun laws, but that's because it makes me afraid to visit the country) I don't see why my Union was attacked.


And btw guys the fact that Greece can crumble a gigantic Union and the world economy, shows how fragile this whole bubble of an economy is. We are but a spec in the world, it's not normal for us to be such a big issue.

[jfrost]

Because it doesn't matter the general wage level, but the deficits governments run into. If Greece was overspending on government workers and welfare, this is not compared to other countries, but on their inability to rake in enough cash to cover it. Actually, Greece could've been, in absolute terms, quite poor and still fail to pay their debts.

It's an economic understanding, so even if you're not an European, you're arguably well equipped to give an opinion on it.

Unless it's a very local issue, but even then, if foreigners have good information, I believe they should make their views known anyway. You might not like it, but who cares?

[ZeroAX]

Because it doesn't matter the general wage level, but the deficits governments run into. If Greece was overspending on government workers and welfare, this is not compared to other countries, but on their inability to rake in enough cash to cover it. Actually, Greece could've been, in absolute terms, quite poor and still fail to pay their debts.

It's an economic understanding, so even if you're not an European, you're arguably well equipped to give an opinion on it.

Unless it's a very local issue, but even then, if foreigners have good information, I believe they should make their views known anyway. You might not like it, but who cares?

But the issues plaguing Greece are not those. Greece has problems with bureaucracy which have basically killed the economy. You have no idea how big problems. And yet the EU didn't ask for that to be solved first. Instead it asked for austerity measures.

Basically it's like a company which is going to go bankrupt, and it just got a loan to help it save itself, and instead of trying to invest it in somethng good, they spend months trying to cut costs by reducing the printer paper, the number of cups at the water cooler, issues like that.

And I am dead serious it's like that. You can't see that from outside. You are being judgemental on THE WRONG THINGS. We have infinite bureaucracy. I mean a guy tried to make a water plane company which would land tourists in various islands in Greece and he needed 8000 signatures from state agencies. And after 6 years he only managed to get the 2500 ones (and he closed up shop and left the country).

FFS the Germans accused us of working less, when the average Greek actually works more than the average German.

Of course there are the public servants who have a godlike life (early retirement, benefits ect.) but they are really only 1/10th of the population (which is still a big part, but not so much to say that the rest of the country doesn't work)


On the other hand, Ireland was hit hard by the financial crisis which was caused my the collapse in the US, and it would have recovered fine if Greece hadn't pushed it over the edge.


See things are too complex and too different from country to country. And as I said the local media is very biased. You have to read media from every country to get something close to the truth. Now my question is, how many of you here read European news media?