Game-Series that revolutionized RPGs?

[isiolia]

If you're talking about base influence on RPG videogames, then I'd have to point back to the originals like Wizardry, Ultima, and Rogue.

As influential as Final Fantasy might be, it also took elements from prior games, and from pen and paper stuff. Maybe as an introduction to RPGs for different people - but not as originators of the genre.

[dogman91]

I can't decide which RPG to try out first... my experience with RPGs so far have been:

1. Final Fantasy Mystic Quest
2. Pokemon

...so yeah. I really need to get going on that.

I'm looking to play from the "beginning" basically; with either Ultima, Dragon Warrior/Quest, or Wizardry. I would like to know what is the Racketboy community's suggestion on what I start out with? I'm tempted to go with any of the remakes of these, but I would think that defeats the purpose of starting with a RPG that revolutionized things from a historical perspective... but then again, gameplay flaws are fixed with better graphics etc. THEN though, I might as well play Final Fantasy VII. Decisions!

My initial plan was to play the original Dragon Quest in some form, then eventually go back to Ultima and Wizardry to see where it derives it's elements from. Any ideas?

[Breetai]

The only correct answers are Ultima and Wizardry. Everything else came from them.

Final Fantasy revolutionized NOTHING. It ripped off Dragon Quest, which ripped off Ultima.

Morrowind, Oblivion and Fallout 3 are not revolutionary at all, either. Morrowind just built on Daggerfall, which just built on Arena, which is just a natural progression of the traditional dungeon crawler into 3D with randomly generated maps to create a huge world (which was hand drawn by the time Elder Scrolls was into sequels). Fallout 3 was just a natural progression of the Fallout world into 3D. It came so late because of licensing issues and legal battles (ignoring the PS2 Fallout game). Fallout itself wasn't revolutionary either, as it was just a spiritual sequel to Wasteland. Baldur's Gate was just an extension of the traditional computer RPG using an engine similar to Fallout (or was it the same engine?).

So, after Ultima and Wizardry, which game-series really revolutionized RPGs? I would say it was a hugely popular series that isn't even an RPG series, although it does have RPG elements. The series that most influenced RPGs is Zelda. It brought the idea of the RPG to the western mainstream, and eventually influenced RPG makers to streamline things such as the battle system to make it more accessible to the casual gamer.

Which RPG series popularized RPGs? Easily Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy. Dragon Quest in Japan, especially with DQIII, and both series in the west (Dragon Warrior 1, because it was shoved down every kid's throat by Nintendo, and Final Fantasy VII a decade later, because of over-hype and mid-90s fanboyism).

I can't decide which RPG to try out first... my experience with RPGs so far have been:

1. Final Fantasy Mystic Quest
2. Pokemon

...so yeah. I really need to get going on that.

I'm looking to play from the "beginning" basically; with either Ultima, Dragon Warrior/Quest, or Wizardry. I would like to know what is the Racketboy community's suggestion on what I start out with? I'm tempted to go with any of the remakes of these, but I would think that defeats the purpose of starting with a RPG that revolutionized things from a historical perspective... but then again, gameplay flaws are fixed with better graphics etc. THEN though, I might as well play Final Fantasy VII. Decisions!

My initial plan was to play the original Dragon Quest in some form, then eventually go back to Ultima and Wizardry to see where it derives it's elements from. Any ideas?

I'm looking to play from the "beginning" basically; with either Ultima, Dragon Warrior/Quest, or Wizardry. I would like to know what is the Racketboy community's suggestion on what I start out with?

DQI/DWI was pretty short, but requires a lot of grinding. It's actually a pretty dry game. DQIII is really where the series became awesome, but it is still dry IMO. DQIV is the absolute pinnacle, and it stayed there with DQV. So, I would recommend playing through DQIV and DQV in the Dragon Quest series.

Similarly with Final Fantasy, the first two games are pretty dry/boring/grinding. FFIII is where the series really hit its stride. I would say IV and VI are the best of the series. V and IX are also up there. For all the heckling it gets here, FFVII is actually decent. Even I am hard on it, but it's not a bad game at all. It is good overall. It just pales in comparison to the game that game before; FFVI (or III on the SNES).

Chrono Trigger is also a great RPG to start with. It is fun, interesting and not too complicated.

Others are Phantasy Star IV and Lunar: Silver Star (slight name variations exist). I would recommend Phantasy Star IV over I or II, because, while you do need to grind a bit, it is a much more straightforward and easier game than PSI or PSII. PSIII is... boring.

Hopefully that gives you some perspective to work with.

[Ivo]

The only correct answers are Ultima and Wizardry. Everything else came from them.

Final Fantasy revolutionized NOTHING. It ripped off Dragon Quest, which ripped off Ultima.

Morrowind, Oblivion and Fallout 3 are not revolutionary at all, either. Morrowind just built on Daggerfall, which just built on Arena, which is just a natural progression of the traditional dungeon crawler into 3D with randomly generated maps to create a huge world (which was hand drawn by the time Elder Scrolls was into sequels).

I would say Arena was still pretty revolutionary, as were Ultima Underworld. Daggerfall was a big step up from Arena I would say also revolutionary.

You are being extremely limiting with your use of revolutionary I think, from that kind of point of view maybe we can say the only correct answer is whatever shmup first had power ups and every RPG was just a natural progression of that...

Although you have valid points in providing the historical examples from where many of these games evolved from - just because it is evolutionary it doesn't mean it is not also revolutionary.

Ivo.

[MrPopo]

If the only things you've played are Pokemon and Mystic Quest I would NOT start with Wizardry, Ultima, or the original Dragon Quest. I'd work my way backwards a bit, grabbing an SNES FF title, then go backwards through the NES DQ titles. The earlier ones are vicious.

[dogman91]

Hm, I was thinking I might appreciate the genre more if I started with what everyone started with/liked back in the day, then have the later games "blow my mind"... or is it really that bad. I feel kind of burned with Mystic Quest, so that's why I don't want to start off with something too easy or linear. I'll have to give this more thought...

Thanks btw MrPopo and Breetai for your suggestions!

[Hatta]

I would recommend Ultima over Wizardry. Wizardry is damn hard, requires lots of mapping, and lots of dangerous battles. It's a pretty hard core D&D experience.

Ultima is a very simple game, but I don't think it should be off putting to the modern player. It's really different from what you expect from an RPG. e.g stats are raised by visiting special places on the map. It's different enough to be really interesting, and it can be completed in an afternoon once you figure out what's up.

I would definitely recommend playing with Ultima for a bit to see what it's all about. If you don't want to finish it, that's cool too, it's more appealing from a historical interest side than a gameplay side these days. And for historical accuracy, play the Apple II version. AppleWin is an excellent choice of emulator.

Edit: If you're really interested in early computer RPGs, you need a copy of Dungeon & Desktops by Matt Barton.

[Opa Opa]

I'd say that if you wanted to get a classic computer-rpg experience without actually finding working floppy disks or emulating; try out The Dark Spire by Atlus.

It captures the feel of the old rpgs but it's a lot easier to jump into, I think.

Edit: If you're really interested in early computer RPGs, you need a copy of Dungeon & Desktops by Matt Barton.

I'd like to know more about this.

[Hatta]

Sure. Dungeons & Desktops is the closest thing to a scholarly treatment of computer RPGs yet. He talks about every major cRPG you can think of, with an emphasis on historical relevance. What did this RPG do first, how did it borrow from others, that kind of thing.

It's Matt's first book, so there are definitely areas that could be improved. But it's very comprehensive and there's nothing else like it out there. It's also specifically about computer RPGs, only mentioning a few console RPGs in passing.

If you're interested Matt has a blog at Armchair Arcade, and a video series called Matt Chat. He's been doing some great interviews with really big names from the past. People like Interplay founder Brian Fogel, text adventure inventor Scott Adams, etc. It's a lot more than the typical review oriented game videos.

[Opa Opa]

Sure. Dungeons & Desktops is the closest thing to a scholarly treatment of computer RPGs yet. He talks about every major cRPG you can think of, with an emphasis on historical relevance. What did this RPG do first, how did it borrow from others, that kind of thing.

It's Matt's first book, so there are definitely areas that could be improved. But it's very comprehensive and there's nothing else like it out there. It's also specifically about computer RPGs, only mentioning a few console RPGs in passing.

If you're interested Matt has a blog at Armchair Arcade, and a video series called Matt Chat. He's been doing some great interviews with really big names from the past. People like Interplay founder Brian Fogel, text adventure inventor Scott Adams, etc. It's a lot more than the typical review oriented game videos.

Thanks!