Defender: Together Retro Discussion

[Mozgus]

What keyboard or controller setup do you use? Here's mine:

I'm using my 360 pad. Up and down are normal, then L1 thrusts, R1 reverses, A shoots, X superbombs, B teleports.

[Niode]

I'm using a ps2 pad. Using the analogue stick for up and down. X for thrust, Square for fire, O for Reverse, L1 for smartbomb and R1 for Hyperspace.

Thats the most comfortable setup I could think of. Having thrust on the dpad/analogue stick would be too confusing seeing as you have to press right to go left in reverse mode

[Toad64]

Man, did they put this on the Atari Flashback II by any chance? Otherwise, guess I'm hooking up the old Atari...

[Ivo]

I really hate the controls of the arcade version. The remake I used to play (Overkill, on the Amiga) had the sensible controls that reversed when you turned the other way. In the arcade, and with keys (I don't have my pad with me yet ), the most comfortable I got was using arrow keys, with the reverse to the left and thrust to the right.

The main problem with the "reverse" thing (instead of just d-pad style controls) is that reverse in quick succession require a lot of focus.

Ivo.

[bobbynewmarkiii]

Is anyone else using the PSP Midway Treasures version?

I was using shockwave which was cool, but got the PSP retail version off amazon and it refuses to save highscores etc. (says is needs at least 128k free on memory card - can it not see the 2.5Gb available?!?) Anyone else try the PSP version / have any problems with this?

Scores have gone down since changing control scheme...

[Ivo]

I just had a read through the earlier posts.

I can't avoid but writing my strong disagreement with anyone suggesting that the original arcade controls make sense - that "reverse" crap is obsolete. If you are used to them because you played it as a kid or something, so be it... But the "reverse" button was NOT a good idea (the fact that this sort of controls were, as far as I know, either sparingly or even never used again for side-scrolling shooters should serve as a not so subtle hint).

Before I ever played Defender I played a very nice "remake" (I probably didn't even know it was a remake of a classic, back then) called Overkill for the Amiga CD32 (also for the A1200, I believe). It obviously had the natural controls on a d-pad, with no "reverse" button mess. The game was still hard (maybe not as much as Defender, which is also understandable), but much more enjoyable in terms of gameplay. I have nearly nothing against difficult games, but the difficulty should be a design feature, NOT due to control flaws (and not due to cheap shots, either*).

Also, on the "the reverse button lets experts do more" reasoning: it isn't particularly exact. I don't know how the 2600 port handled it as I haven't played it, but you can certainly have inertia together with intuitive controls (basically, you could have the "reverse" button always be the opposite direction, without needing to brake before turning - just that the "reverse" and "thrust" automatically swap when you turn around). With those controls you could still thrust a lot in one direction, reverse to shoot whatever is chasing, reverse again to keep thrusting in the original direction (incidentally, a very good tactic to dealing with mutants and those annoying saucers that show up when you take too long on a wave) - except that it would be easier to do more than one reverse in quick succession.

* IMO Defender doesn't really have much of those, though. Some people seem to think otherwise, which I understand but respectfully disagree. The aliens AI seems to include a bit of aiming of the shots - that isn't cheap IMO.

[racketboy]

I wouldn't say the original controls "make sense", but I think they add to the challenge and keep it from being just another shooter.
I think there is some special charm from the controls.

[Niode]

I agree with Racketboy. I think the controls do have a certain charm to them. I quite like the quirkiness of it and I soon got my head around it. If you keep persisting with it kind of does make sense I think. Purely for the fact that thrust is controlled independently from direction. To accelerate and move upwards requires a diagonal press likewise for downwards movement while accelerating. Having a separate thrust button allows for much nimbler control in my opinion.

I think it makes much more sense that way. I reckon my opinion might have changed if I didn't drive, but the controls for defender are sort of like driving a car... ish.. haha. Have you ever tried a driving simulation with just one joy stick for acceleration and turning? (as in up & down accelerate and brake, left & right steer) It's a nightmare.

I think that a directional control system works better for side scrolling shmups where the screen is scrolling at a fixed rate as opposed to defenders go anywhere gimmick.

[marurun]

I think what I would have preferred in a control scheme is an amalgam of the original and the remakes.

Up and down move you up and down. Left and right adjust your facing but do not apply thrust. That way you can instinctively jerk in the direction you want to be facing. Thrust moves you in the direction you are facing.

Alternately, a more difficult, but logical scheme would involve the joystick doing nothing by itself. When you thrust you move in the direction you are holding on the joystick, including up and down, regardless of facing. The reverse button then begins to make sense as it is the only way to alter your facing.

[Wibblefish]

Defender is one of those games that I've always had respect for but never actually been any good at. I can get to the second level if I'm lucky but not much further than that.

I remember having the BBC version many many years ago which was actually a pretty faithful conversion, but didn't quite replicate the amazing sounds that Williams are known to wring from their arcade hardware.