When do you think we'll see the PS4 and Xbox 720?

[jfrost]

I'm rather surprised to see sometimes how Nintendo has this reputation of innovating and leadership after only one generation at the top. One would think it would take more than that, seeing as they spent more than 10 years trailing behind Sony and were even behind Microsoft's first Xbox.

[MrPopo]

I'm rather surprised to see sometimes how Nintendo has this reputation of innovating and leadership after only one generation at the top. One would think it would take more than that, seeing as they spent more than 10 years trailing behind Sony and were even behind Microsoft's first Xbox.

They've always been innovative. It's just that it's only recently that the innovation is paying off again.

[isiolia]

They're still gimmicks, though, regardless of whether it's Sony or Nintendo doing it.

Well, forced motion controls are gimmicky. As an option they're fine.

I consider it like light guns or steering wheels. For some games, they're a great, natural method of control. For the majority, they flat out suck.

Nintendo isn't so much innovating as they are forcing developers a certain way. Consider, for example, the EyeToy for the PS2. It could do some of what Kinect does now - and certainly the Wii as well. It was only supported by a relative handful of games, and even within those mostly for pictures...but it technically supported alternative controls well before the Wii.

NIntendo just made a rudimentary motion controller standard, and marketed the ever-living hell out of it. It made for much better marketing, and much wider developer support.

I think MS also learned their lesson about rushing things to market last time.

You mean that lesson about amassing a huge market share and creating such a devoted fanbase that they will ignore massive hardware failure because of their position in a stupid 'console war'?

Cause if that's the lesson they learned, we'll see the next Xbox come Tuesday. It will spark when you plug it in and 2 out of every 5 models will burn your house down. Microsoft will make BILLIONS!

MS definitely benefited from having the 360 out first - but they wound up losing billions dealing the RRoD issues, plus it tarnished the brand.

I'm sure they were set on tossing a ton of money making the 360 a success, just like they poured money into the original XBox, but I'm sure they would have like it to be going towards something other than replacing machines.

It was a gamble, and while it wasn't a complete failure, I really don't see them doing it again. Just like I don't think Sony will just assume people will pay $600 for a console again.

[BoringSupreez]

I'm rather surprised to see sometimes how Nintendo has this reputation of innovating and leadership after only one generation at the top. One would think it would take more than that, seeing as they spent more than 10 years trailing behind Sony and were even behind Microsoft's first Xbox.

They have a reputation for innovation because of the N64, DS and Wii. N64 was the first system to use an analog stick well (previous systems either had a digital stick, ala 2600, or had an analog stick that wasn't really that useful), DS had the whole 2 screens and a touch screen, and Wii was the first console to use motion outside of a few special games. So I think they've kind of earned it.

[MrPopo]

I'm rather surprised to see sometimes how Nintendo has this reputation of innovating and leadership after only one generation at the top. One would think it would take more than that, seeing as they spent more than 10 years trailing behind Sony and were even behind Microsoft's first Xbox.

They have a reputation for innovation because of the N64, DS and Wii. N64 was the first system to use an analog stick well (previous systems either had a digital stick, ala 2600, or had an analog stick that wasn't really that useful), DS had the whole 2 screens and a touch screen, and Wii was the first console to use motion outside of a few special games. So I think they've kind of earned it.

SNES had shoulder buttons. Gameboy was the first portable to be anything more than a curiosity.

[Flake]

NES - D-pad design (so good it's patented) and a game platform that could support bidirectional scrolling.

SNES - Shoulder pad buttons and mode-7 graphics on a home console. Also Super gameboy add on.

N64 - Trigger design, dedicated camera buttons.

Gamecube - maybe not the most innovative though I think the controllers get an honorable mention.

Also, I think someone said Nintendo has only been an industry leader for one hardware generation. In the US they have been the top seller 3 out of 5 gens.

I'm not saying that Nintendo is perfect or that they are for everybody. I don't understand what it is that makes it so that people can't say anything about Sony or Microsoft without validating it by bashing Nintendo. All three companies have a lot of great stuff on offer - just as all three make mistakes. But for some reason hating Nintendo is the thing to do right now.

*shrug*

[BoringSupreez]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6320314.html
This article makes it sound like no PS3 until at least 2013.

[isiolia]

In fairness, a lot of the stuff mentioned either wasn't a Nintendo first, or was more an expected progression.

I don't think it's necessarily bashing them to say that they do a lot more of, well, exactly what they say they do. Take cheap, available tech, and find ways to build games around it.

For that model to work more recently, that's tended to mean making a gimmick of some kind. Dual screens on the DS, motion control on the Wii, glasses-free 3D on the 3DS, the Wii U controller, and so on.

To me, the earlier uses of tech were driven by software. For example, the standard analog control on the N64, while not the first use on a console, or even at the time (neGcon and dual flightstick for PSX, 3D pad for Saturn), it was likely found to be necessary in the process of designing Mario 64 and the like. It was a natural evolution as games moved more to 3D...but Nintendo was thinking ahead (and was later to market, which also may have played a part).

More recently...I'm not so sure. Some of it seems more like inclusions due to tech being cheaper, and wanting a way to stand out than what's actually best suited for the games they're making.

[MrPopo]

To me, the earlier uses of tech were driven by software. For example, the standard analog control on the N64, while not the first use on a console, or even at the time (neGcon and dual flightstick for PSX, 3D pad for Saturn),

The 64 controller came out before the 3D pad on the Saturn. The dual flightsticks were too niche; the Vectex had an analog joystick as well but no one thinks of the Vectrex when they think of analog pioneers.

[isiolia]

To me, the earlier uses of tech were driven by software. For example, the standard analog control on the N64, while not the first use on a console, or even at the time (neGcon and dual flightstick for PSX, 3D pad for Saturn),

The 64 controller came out before the 3D pad on the Saturn. The dual flightsticks were too niche; the Vectex had an analog joystick as well but no one thinks of the Vectrex when they think of analog pioneers.

The Saturn pad was nearly simultaneous to the N64 - Nintendo released it on June 24th '96, the controller, bundled with NiGHTs, launched in Japan on July 5th.

Analog was also quite standard on the PC, so it's hard to consider any of the consoles as pioneers in that regard. I know the Vectrex had them, and the Atari 5200 as well.

What I take away from that more is that analog controls were on the table for everyone. It wasn't something like the DS's dual screens where Nintendo just came out of left field - it's more something that likely would have proliferated regardless.