Osama bin Laden is dead

[Limewater]

Americans are raised to think and act in a specific way. They want us to be smart enough to work and pay taxes but dumb enough so we lack the ability to think for ourselves and use logic. The education system is this country is bad by design.

<snip>

Another reason why wars are so great is they are very helpful in eroding our freedoms. Most Americans won't hesitate to give up freedoms if it's in the name of safety. You want to travel on that airplane? Well, we are gonna have to take a look at your naked body and go through your luggage. Oh, we also need to scan your laptop for copyright infringement and child porn.

Like Dsheinem and GamerForLife, I agree with some of what you said. I'd like to specifically discuss the two above points, though. Not that I necessarily disagree with them.

Do you really think that the failings of our education system are a result of malice rather than incompetence? This sort of thing would take a generation to put into place. The American political system doesn't really lend itself to long-term thinking, with term limits and closely-spaced elections. Just look at the budget-- they always plan it for the next ten to fifteen years, but then the plan always changes dramatically. I have a hard time believing that our leadership would go to such efforts when they know that they will be out of power before the fruits of such actions come to pass.

On the issue of eroding our freedoms: I agree that war is a great way to erode our freedoms. Again, though, I have a hard time with the idea that we would wage it specifically for this purpose. I have no problem, however, believing that war could be waged, for example, by someone wishing to establish his legacy. War declarations come through the President, and he knows he's not going to be around that long to enjoy the extra power he has usurped.

This is also the reason why I don't buy the idea that Bin Ladin has been dead for years and this is an opportunistic action by President Obama. I have a hard time believing former President Bush would have let an opportunity like that pass him by and just give it freely to Barrack Obama. If he had such a card, he would have pulled it during the second half of 2008 so that his presidency could go out on a high note and/or his popularity boost could get another Republican into the whitehouse.

[BoringSupreez]

Like Dsheinem and GamerForLife, I agree with some of what you said. I'd like to specifically discuss the two above points, though. Not that I necessarily disagree with them.

Do you really think that the failings of our education system are a result of malice rather than incompetence? This sort of thing would take a generation to put into place. The American political system doesn't really lend itself to long-term thinking, with term limits and closely-spaced elections. Just look at the budget-- they always plan it for the next ten to fifteen years, but then the plan always changes dramatically. I have a hard time believing that our leadership would go to such efforts when they know that they will be out of power before the fruits of such actions come to pass.

On the issue of eroding our freedoms: I agree that war is a great way to erode our freedoms. Again, though, I have a hard time with the idea that we would wage it specifically for this purpose. I have no problem, however, believing that war could be waged, for example, by someone wishing to establish his legacy. War declarations come through the President, and he knows he's not going to be around that long to enjoy the extra power he has usurped.

This is also the reason why I don't buy the idea that Bin Ladin has been dead for years and this is an opportunistic action by President Obama. I have a hard time believing former President Bush would have let an opportunity like that pass him by and just give it freely to Barrack Obama. If he had such a card, he would have pulled it during the second half of 2008 so that his presidency could go out on a high note and/or his popularity boost could get another Republican into the whitehouse.

I agree with the last paragraph. If Bush could have nailed Bin Laden, there's no way he wouldn't have done it, especially once the economy started going south and his approval ratings dropped.

[Ack]

I would like to add for Inazuma's sake that there have been times when sporting events have been used politically, such as USA vs. Soviet hockey games or Joe Louis beating down Nazi Germany's Max Schmeling.

Oh, and intelligence reports aren't always accurate, so false information is sometimes released publicly.

[Flake]

OK guys. It's time to call Inazuma an asshole again. Don't disappoint me.

Hey, when you actually explain your opinion (as you fairly succinctly did just now) instead of just making outlandish and baseless statements for shock value you'll find that no one is going to call you an asshole.

Still, Americans are not brought up ' a certain way '. Americans just ARE that way. You have a body of people who have inherited the world from their grandparents who actually did all the work. This same body has been artificially wealthy for 5 decades because of the US emerging from WWII virtually unscathed. Now let's add geography to the mix with only two bordering countries, thus making meaningful international interaction virtually impossible for most citizens.

Sounds to me like a recipe for ignorance and xenophobia, despite what the government may or may not intend.

Wars do not make countries rich, Inazuma. TOTAL WAR makes a country rich because it is cheap and easy to wage and the spoils always go to the victor. But total war can no longer be waged by any developed states because of nuclear deterrence. War is the most expensive proposition that a US president can contemplate as it is virtually guaranteeing a huge net loss of revenue to field, outfit, feed, and fund an army while providing it with intelligence infrastructure, medical support, and air support. ALL THE WHILE, we have this 'we broke it; we bought it' mentality that compels us to build schools, roads, and take care of the civilian populace - all at our own expense because we cannot look at either Iraq or Afghanistan and demand reparation money.

And the advent of body armor has made war a lasting expense - It's a morbid detail no one likes to think about but dead soldiers are cheaper than wounded or maimed soldiers.

So please dissuade yourself of this fallacy that the United States is reaping all kinds of money from engaging in two (now three) foreign conflicts. There have been private persons who have gotten wealthy but that is due to corruption, mismanagement, and the nepotism that went with the assignment of military contracts; A very small group of people indeed. The country though? The country is in the financial gutter because of these wars.

[Breetai]

Here are other times Bin Laden has been pronounced, or thought, to be dead:So...you're trusting FOX (which is never to be trusted), Al-Jazeera (which may have been in cahoots with bin Laden to get those videos that boosted viewership), and the French. Uh...

No, I'm just mentioning that it has been previously thought that he was dead before. I'm not saying that I definitely believe that he was dead, just that others have. If he was just killed, what were all those previous reports wrong? Well, that would be the case. I just thought it was worth questioning things. Nothing more, nothing less.

[YoshiEgg25]

Here are other times Bin Laden has been pronounced, or thought, to be dead:So...you're trusting FOX (which is never to be trusted), Al-Jazeera (which may have been in cahoots with bin Laden to get those videos that boosted viewership), and the French. Uh...

No, I'm just mentioning that it has been previously thought that he was dead before. I'm not saying that I definitely believe that he was dead, just that others have. If he was just killed, what were all those previous reports wrong? Well, that would be the case. I just thought it was worth questioning things. Nothing more, nothing less.

Also to add, the White House had never confirmed it before. That's the kicker: the government is saying it, not these networks.

[vash23n]

What does it take? What is the burden of proof? A picture? A video of the raid? Would you believe this if it were announced by a lame duck president? Do you have to personally stick your cock in bin Laden's dead corpse to believe it is him?

My wife and I have been talking about this conspiracy stuff and this was the funniest response I have heard. Honestly, I don't know how I feel. All I can say is that I feel weird. Like in limbo. Some people are celebrating his death like they have been following every scrape of news about his whereabouts since 9/11, crying over and praying on the issue every night, begging for justice to be done. Others are pulling out Martin Luther King, Jr. quotes about how they refuse to celebrate someone's death no matter how evil the person may have been, portraying such a "holier than though" attitude. Most of the people I know who fit into either of the above categories have never once demonstrated the slightest care about what is going on in the Middle East. They don't have any knowledge of any terrorist organization, they know nothing about Osama or his history (or history in general)... they only know his name and that he was involved in 9/11. If something came on TV concerning Osama before his death, they would change the channel. When being against war was the cool thing to do, they were all over that trend. When supporting the troops was in, they were on it.

So that's how I feel about it all... weird, detached, confused, annoyed.

[o.pwuaioc]

Others are pulling out Martin Luther King, Jr. quotes about how they refuse to celebrate someone's death no matter how evil the person may have been, portraying such a "holier than though" attitude.

Ironically, that quote is a fake.

http://www.salon.com/entertainment/tv/f ... ama_death/

[Inazuma]

Others are pulling out Martin Luther King, Jr. quotes about how they refuse to celebrate someone's death no matter how evil the person may have been, portraying such a "holier than though" attitude.

Ironically, that quote is a fake.

http://www.salon.com/entertainment/tv/f ... ama_death/

I'm glad to hear that the quote wasn't actually said by King. I never liked it. I have always been a big fan of Martin Luther King Jr. and hearing that quote made me lose a bit of respect for him. Now I can happily go back to thinking highly of him.

If a completely fucking evil person dies, you should feel happy. If you don't feel happy, then you are an asshole in my eyes.

Of course, killing an evil person won't undo the harmful acts they committed, nor will it bring the dead back to life. It will however, prevent future harmful acts from occurring. It can save lives that would have been lost, had that evil person continued to go unchecked. Some people are so fucking rotten to the core, that there is no helping them. Killing them may be the best decision. Letting them use up tax payers' money in prison for 100 years would be adding insult to injury.

Osama bin Laden was one of those completely fucking evil mother fuckers, that was beyond hopeless (at least that's what we know from the media). So if someone like that is dead now, it's completely acceptable for someone to think "Hey that's great! He won't kill anymore people!".

[Czernobog]

I completely agree with everything Inazuma just said.

I've been pointing that article out to people who keep using that quote for awhile now. The sad part is they all just say it's exactly how MK Jr. would feel, as if they personally knew him or have actually read anything he's written.