Osama bin Laden is dead

[aaron]

Welp, guess I'm done in this thread. And I do think, thanks, just not about the same things I guess. Which makes me neither better or worse than the rest of you.

[Breetai]

Forgive me for being skeptical, but...

It has been reported various times in the past decade that Bin Ladin has not been well. It has been reported from various sources that he died many years ago (but never shown in US media, yet it was in some eastern medias... take that for what it's worth). He has not been seen live since around a couple years after 9/11 (was it even live then, or just video recordings?).

The US gov't is saying that they killed him. The proof is their word. They have no body. They are saying that he was giving a burial at sea in the Islamic tradition (isn't that convenient?). They say they have DNA. Well, did they have his DNA from earlier to compare it to? That's the only way to know it is his DNA! If they had it before, then how did they get it? Was Osama bin Laden in good relations with the US gov't before? If so, then...well, what's up with that?

Yeah, I'm skeptical.



Oh, and Aaron? I know exactly what you're saying and it DOES make sense. A lot of the responses arguing what you said are arguments from emotion.

[saturnfan]

Welp, guess I'm done in this thread. And I do think, thanks, just not about the same things I guess. Which makes me neither better or worse than the rest of you.

You know that alternative view points will not be tolerated.

[Hatta]

As much as I get pissed off about the way our government conducts itself, I don't think that they are competent enough to convincingly create cover-ups and fabricate news stories, nor do I think they are devious enough to lie about something like this for the sake of a bump in the polls.

Indeed. The government wasn't even competent enough to make the announcement on time.

Personally, I think this is good news, but not worth the price we paid to hear it. The longest war in US history, and all we accomplish is taking down a figurehead. Maybe we can have the CIA put its energies towards investigating Goldman Sachs now. But that's just wishful thinking.

What is it with people and conspiracy theories? It's like they look for the craziest possible way to interpret the news, and ignore the utterly banal evil occurring around them every day. Where were all the "skeptics" when we were going INTO Afghanistan or Iraq?

[alienjesus]

I find this image of a crowd cheering after hearing of his death very interesting. Not saying I'm not with them, but it's interesting to compare the shot to similar ones taken around the world, of people cheering the death of americans, or other events which we see from another perspective.

I heard chanting in the streets ('U.S.A, U.S.A') on the radio today when listening to the news and I found it slightly disturbing. It seems more like a celebration at a sports game or something than news that a man had been killed. Even when the man has commited such horrible crimes as this, I find it creepy to celebrate someones death so fervently.

Obviously I'm not saying that people shouldn't be happy, I know this brings closure for a lot of people out there. But outright celebrating the shooting of a man in the streets seems a bit much, can't we all just be like 'that was a job that needed done, and now it has been' and get on with it.

I'm sure it'll be easy for young muslims in the middle east who see this news to understand that the west is not at war with islam as a whole when they see people chanting and cheering about the killing of a muslim man. The patriotism of the chanting does nothing to dissuade the opinion that the it's the US vs Islam.

[Hatta]

The patriotism of the chanting does nothing to dissuade the opinion that the it's the US vs Islam.

As far as most Americans are concerned it IS the US vs Islam. America is after all chosen by God to be the greatest, freest country that ever graced the face of the Earth. It's only appropriate that they wage war against those heathens.

[dsheinem]

They have no body. They are saying that he was giving a burial at sea in the Islamic tradition (isn't that convenient?). They say they have DNA. Well, did they have his DNA from earlier to compare it to? That's the only way to know it is his DNA! If they had it before, then how did they get it?

Oh, and Aaron? I know exactly what you're saying and it DOES make sense. A lot of the responses arguing what you said are arguments from emotion.

Welp, guess I'm done in this thread. And I do think, thanks, just not about the same things I guess. Which makes me neither better or worse than the rest of you.

You know that alternative view points will not be tolerated.

It isn't that alternative viewpoints won't be tolerated, it is that claims about "hoaxes" and "convenient timing" and so on without some kind of basis in facts are completely stupid and destructive bullshit.

As I said earlier, and as anyone who researches for a few seconds could easily learn, we have DNA of Osama's sister (we have her brain, actually). I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if we release these DNA records to be independently verified at some point, if only to quit the inane clamoring of folks who want to find a conspiracy. Even then, it won't shut them up (just as the long form birth certificate won't stop birther idiocy).

What does it take? What is the burden of proof? A picture? A video of the raid? Would you believe this if it were announced by a lame duck president? Do you have to personally stick your cock in bin Laden's dead corpse to believe it is him?

I am all for new information and alternative interpretations of the facts (e.g. debating something like the WMD argument). But when you have no facts to start with, you end up looking like the buffoons who claim that Elvis and Tupac faked the moon landing in an underground film studio in Roswell to distract the American public from noticing Obama's father planting explosives inside the support beams of the World Trade Center.

[YoshiEgg25]

But when you have no facts to start with, you end up looking like the buffoons who claim that Elvis and Tupac faked the moon landing in an underground film studio in Roswell to distract the American public from noticing Obama's father planting explosives inside the support beams of the World Trade Center.

I wish this was true. It would make history so much easier.

[dsheinem]

you end up looking like the buffoons

Also, lest I come off as overly antagonistic - aaron, Breetai, and saturnfan - I respect each of you and think you are all intelligent members of the board. I usually appreciate your contributions in discussion of games, politics, or whatever else.

Please understand that I am mostly railing against a mindset and a popular discourse that I see as hanging around the fringes of your remarks. I think it smacks of idiocy, even though I know none of you are idiots. I am merely asking you to raise the level of conversation to something above what passes for conspiracy baiting...if you have some legitimate claims that can be made with actual substance to them, I would welcome them.

[Hatta]

I think the Birthers just need a new conspiracy theory. Isn't it just too convenient that this happens less than a week after the long form got released. Hey, where's Osama's death certificate?!