Anonymous strikes again

[noiseredux]

However, I do not agree with hacking PSN (if that's what happened) to punish Sony. If Sony's customers are unhappy then they need to punish Sony by boycotting Sony's products in the future. Bringing down PSN may be a nuisance to Sony, but it punishes gamers more.

I love the games offered on PS3. So I should boycott Sony because a bunch of numbnuts think they're making a stand against the colossus from their moms' basements? I can't help but go back to Flake's statement: THESE ARE FUCKING GAMES!

[Niode]

Nintendo:
-Won't allow you to transfer VC or WiiWare titles from console to console, unless you can prove one died. Then you have to send both to them for the transfer to be done at your expense.
-Will remotely brick your Wii if it uses certain softmods and take it online for an official update.
-Requires you to buy point cards in set amounts, regardless of if you only need a small amount of points.

MS
-asks you to pay to play online Doesn't offer dedicated servers. Multiplayer remains free for everyone else on every other platform.
-RROD problems which are MUCH more widespread then the YLOD. At least MS did the right thing by offering fixes (Sony did not), but given the percentage of failures they pretty much had to.
-removes games from XBLA, not allowing you to re-download if you already paid for the game.

Seriously, where's the rage at this crap? As far as I am concerned each of the major three console makers is equally evil this generation, but Sony seems to get an unfair percentage of the butt-hurt in this forum and elsewhere.

That's a licensing issue that is out of Microsoft's hands and is applied to all systems that sell those particular titles. Outrun 2 is removed from both 360 and PS3, however it got an extended stay on the 360. The Midway/Acclaim balls up with the Mortal Kombat games were an issue with the folding of Midway/Acclaim. Not in Microsoft's control. They were faced with remove the games, or risk getting sued.

The fact that Microsoft admitted they were wrong and offered to fix the RRoD is so much better than Sony's usual stance of "if we ignore it it might go away" customer 'service'.

Sony require you to spend a minimum of £5 on the store regardless of whether you want to just pay £1 or 2 for DLC content. How is that any different?

Nintendo won't remotely brick your Wii, that's illegal. We have rights in the EU to safeguard us from that sort of bullshit. The reason it bricks is because certain ios files have been modified that don't get overwritten with the new firmware and don't have the relevant system calls. Resulting in a brick. If you restore your firmware back to default with your backup in priiloader and then update this issue goes away. I expect more than just hearsay from you DS...

I will admit that not being able to transfer your games to another system is absolutely disgusting and poor judgment on Nintendo's part. It's also one of the reasons I don't buy wiiware/VC on the system.

The reason for the hate is because this is the first time I think we've ever witnessed a system get worse with incremental updates. If Sony can remove features willy nilly, without adequate recourse, then what's stopping them removing any features to force you to upgrade to their new hardware or various other underhand tactics?

[brunoafh]

The reason for the hate is because this is the first time I think we've ever witnessed a system get worse with incremental updates. If Sony can remove features willy nilly, without adequate recourse, then what's stopping them removing any features to force you to upgrade to their new hardware or various other underhand tactics?

Nothing is stopping them, but it's not like Sony is some gang of evil-doers in a 50-story building like everyone seems to think. They don't just remove features to be dicks and screw with their customers. They removed a feature that they saw as a potential liability. It's total BS, for sure, but still nothing more than a minor inconvenience to like 95% of the user base. If they start removing features that are actually detrimental to me as a gamer, then that's something I'd be upset about.

[dsheinem]

That's a licensing issue that is out of Microsoft's hands and is applied to all systems that sell those particular titles. Outrun 2 is removed from both 360 and PS3, however it got an extended stay on the 360. The Midway/Acclaim balls up with the Mortal Kombat games were an issue with the folding of Midway/Acclaim. Not in Microsoft's control. They were faced with remove the games, or risk getting sued.

I know this, but shouldn't MS be protecting its customers with a license that allows a game to stay on the service indefintley once its available? Oh, wait, customers agreed to these TOS when they bought the game? Same thing happened with the removal of Other OS. Many company TOS are bullshit, but they haven't yet been proven illegal. I hope they are - I hope Sony has to restore features or reimburse people. I hope MS and Nintendo have to do the same. But I am not holding my breath.

The fact that Microsoft admitted they were wrong and offered to fix the RRoD is so much better than Sony's usual stance of "if we ignore it it might go away" customer 'service'.

Agreed.

Sony require you to spend a minimum of £5 on the store regardless of whether you want to just pay £1 or 2 for DLC content. How is that any different?

In my experience this isn't how it works on PSN. When I buy something there, it charges my card for the amount of purchase.

Nintendo won't remotely brick your Wii, that's illegal. We have rights in the EU to safeguard us from that sort of bullshit. The reason it bricks is because certain ios files have been modified that don't get overwritten with the new firmware and don't have the relevant system calls. Resulting in a brick. If you restore your firmware back to default with your backup in priiloader and then update this issue goes away. I expect more than just hearsay from you DS...

"Remotely" was a poorly chosen word, but as Opa suggested the INTENT of the firmware updates is to essentially punish people for modding the system under the guise of making it "more secure". MS and Sony do the same shit, of course.

The reason for the hate is because this is the first time I think we've ever witnessed a system get worse with incremental updates.

I can understand that. Good point.

If Sony can remove features willy nilly, without adequate recourse, then what's stopping them removing any features to force you to upgrade to their new hardware or various other underhand tactics?

I can't buy into this slippery slope fallacy though, sorry.

[irixith]

Sony require you to spend a minimum of £5 on the store regardless of whether you want to just pay £1 or 2 for DLC content. How is that any different?

In my experience this isn't how it works on PSN. When I buy something there, it charges my card for the amount of purchase.

Right -- as long as that purchase on your credit card is greater than $5. It must be wrapped up in the TOS of the company who processes credit card transactions for them. This is true in the US/Canada, I don't know about other places in the world.

If you use a PSN card, there is no minimum purchase limit applied. (..but then you're always stuck with a little bit extra you can't use in your account, because they charge tax on the content here.)

Personally, I like that I can use real money and not some stupid point system. However for me to be truly happy, they'd have to take away the minimum limit. When I want to purchase something like a PSP mini, I can't, because it almost always falls under the limit. That's silly. If there's going to be a minimum, don't price anything under that wall.

[Niode]

The reason for the hate is because this is the first time I think we've ever witnessed a system get worse with incremental updates. If Sony can remove features willy nilly, without adequate recourse, then what's stopping them removing any features to force you to upgrade to their new hardware or various other underhand tactics?

Nothing is stopping them, but it's not like Sony is some gang of evil-doers in a 50-story building like everyone seems to think. They don't just remove features to be dicks and screw with their customers. They removed a feature that they saw as a potential liability. It's total BS, for sure, but still nothing more than a minor inconvenience to like 95% of the user base. If they start removing features that are actually detrimental to me as a gamer, then that's something I'd be upset about.

The fact that you choose to be ignorant doesn't make it acceptable.

That's a licensing issue that is out of Microsoft's hands and is applied to all systems that sell those particular titles. Outrun 2 is removed from both 360 and PS3, however it got an extended stay on the 360. The Midway/Acclaim balls up with the Mortal Kombat games were an issue with the folding of Midway/Acclaim. Not in Microsoft's control. They were faced with remove the games, or risk getting sued.

I know this, but shouldn't MS be protecting its customers with a license that allows a game to stay on the service indefintley once its available? Oh, wait, customers agreed to these TOS when they bought the game? Same thing happened with the removal of Other OS. Many company TOS are bullshit, but they haven't yet been proven illegal. I hope they are - I hope Sony has to restore features or reimburse people. I hope MS and Nintendo have to do the same. But I am not holding my breath.

To be fair, Microsoft doesn't have a crystal ball, they don't know when a company is going to fold in a way that causes the rights to the digital distribution of a game to be called into question. Nobody can avoid that. It's unfair to expect them to do anything about it. The key difference here is that the people who owned those games still have access to those games. As long as they have a backup of said games they will continue to have access to them and they will still work. The same is not true for the Other OS issue.

[Hatta]

I am pretty sure that removing games from XBLA or denying you access to redownload WiiWare titles is just as "illegal" as taking away Other OS.

There's a very big difference between failing to offer a feature and advertising a feature, making sales based on that feature, and then removing it. That's fraud.

[noiseredux]

The fact that you choose to be ignorant doesn't make it acceptable.

but he's not being ignorant. He's being apathetic. Totally different.

[dsheinem]

I am pretty sure that removing games from XBLA or denying you access to redownload WiiWare titles is just as "illegal" as taking away Other OS.

There's a very big difference between failing to offer a feature and advertising a feature, making sales based on that feature, and then removing it. That's fraud.

were you forced to remove it?

[MrPopo]

And as Niode has demonstrated, you don't need to accept the update that removes Other OS, you just lose access to other features as a consequence. To go back to the car analogy, the proper analogy is that Toyota says "We would like to remove the ashtray, and until you let us you can't use Authorized Toyota Repair Centers." (and yes, the analogy breaks down a bit if you want to nitpick it) You get to decide what's important to you as a consumer.