Wind Waker missing dungeons

[Incognito D]

Wind Waker rules.

I still agree with this overall - I probably haven't made that clear enough since this thread is primarily negative.

[YoshiEgg25]

It's like going for your third badge in Pokemon only to find the Gym Leader and his minions don't want to battle you, and just hand you the badge anyway.

Except that you're going for 20 badges, not eight.

Also, if you want to see Pokémon badges handed out, watch the anime's first season. Ash got around six of the badges without winning.

[Incognito D]

It's like going for your third badge in Pokemon only to find the Gym Leader and his minions don't want to battle you, and just hand you the badge anyway.

Except that you're going for 20 badges, not eight.

Also, if you want to see Pokémon badges handed out, watch the anime's first season. Ash got around six of the badges without winning.

there aren't 20 dungeons in the Wind Waker though

... and the Pokemon anime in my opinion is not good. Although I do have nostalgic memories of watching it every morning before school.

[YoshiEgg25]

It's like going for your third badge in Pokemon only to find the Gym Leader and his minions don't want to battle you, and just hand you the badge anyway.

Except that you're going for 20 badges, not eight.

Also, if you want to see Pokémon badges handed out, watch the anime's first season. Ash got around six of the badges without winning.

there aren't 20 dungeons in the Wind Waker though

No, but they take 20 times longer to get through, and that's if we're being generous.

... and the Pokemon anime in my opinion is not good. Although I do have nostalgic memories of watching it every morning before school.

No one thinks the anime is good. It lives on nostalgia.

Unfortunately, since it's gotten better, it's gotten worse because it's not all crazy like the original season. Bringing us back to nostalgia.

[irixith]

I hate Wind Waker for many reasons, but mostly for what it did to the series:

- Having to repeat the same dungeon over and over..
- ..and therefore reducing the number of and excitement over discovering a new dungeon;
- Having some unnecessary travel gimmick (boat, boat, train..);
- Having that gimmick take an inordinate amount of time with nothing interesting to do on the way;
- Having some unnecessary game time extending fetch quest;
- Finding an item in a dungeon, only to use it there and nowhere else in the game;
- The removal (almost entirely) of puzzles/finding new areas in the overworld based on the items you find in the dungeons;
- Turning the game into a linear go here, then there, then there experience as opposed to the feeling of exploration and finding things on your own.
- Irritating sidekick that further ruins any chance of exploration or figuring even the most basic puzzle out for yourself**;

**(Ocarina of Time introduced Navi (hey listen! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE) which only gets worse with every iteration. Minish Cap has the titular hat which ruins the entire game -- GO HERE! GO THERE! YOU MISSED THIS HIDDEN STONE OVER HERE, DON'T LEAVE YET! The game practically plays itself! Wind Waker continues it with the damn boat, the DS iterations are complete travesties, and don't get me started on the gong show that is Twilight Princess. I expect Skyward sword will amalgamate everything about the series that sucks to date into one ultimate suck-fest, thereby destroying everything that makes Zelda "Zelda" for once and for all.) I hate you Nintendo. Not only have you butchered the series, but none of your competitors have managed to do it better either. Sigh.)

Anyhow, ultimately if Wind Waker did have some extra dungeons, stopped repeating the same dungeon, and a few other things, it may have been a better game. As it stands, as someone who grew up playing Zelda 1, Zelda 2, A Link to the Past, Link's Awakening .. Nintendo butchered what could have been a great game. Notice that I don't complain about the art style? That's because it's fantastic -- but it doesn't mask what is ultimately a very sub-par game.

[AppleQueso]

No, but they take 20 times longer to get through, and that's if we're being generous.

It takes you that long to get through the dungeons in one of the easiest games in the franchise?

[Hatta]

I read Miyamoto saying that they left them out on purpose to shorten the game because they thought that too many people didnt finish RGPs because they can be too long.

Is there any more value to finishing an incomplete game than there is in leaving unfinished an complete game? Either way you don't get a full games experience.

[YoshiEgg25]

No, but they take 20 times longer to get through, and that's if we're being generous.

It takes you that long to get through the dungeons in one of the easiest games in the franchise?

Maybe I just go through Pokémon gyms faster than you?

[alienjesus]

I hate Wind Waker for many reasons, but mostly for what it did to the series:

- Having to repeat the same dungeon over and over..
- ..and therefore reducing the number of and excitement over discovering a new dungeon;
- Having some unnecessary travel gimmick (boat, boat, train..);
- Having that gimmick take an inordinate amount of time with nothing interesting to do on the way;
- Having some unnecessary game time extending fetch quest;
- Finding an item in a dungeon, only to use it there and nowhere else in the game;
- The removal (almost entirely) of puzzles/finding new areas in the overworld based on the items you find in the dungeons;
- Turning the game into a linear go here, then there, then there experience as opposed to the feeling of exploration and finding things on your own.
- Irritating sidekick that further ruins any chance of exploration or figuring even the most basic puzzle out for yourself**;

Wait what? You only had to play one dungeon twice, and it was a very different experience the 2nd time, as you could actually fight instead of having to be stealthy.

The travel gimmick I can udnerstand, but at the same time, it was a far more open mechanic than the travel in the DS games. There was plenty to see and discover on the open sea (submarines, towers, treasure hunting, island exploring, Big Octos, great fairys, reef fortresses), and a lot of these optional exploration areas make use of the tools you acquire in dungeons. Also, these tools aren't dungeon exclusive at all, I distinctly remember having to use the grappling hook, deku leaf, bombs, bow etc all over the place.

Im not sure who the irritating sidekick is you're referring too. I remember some of the triforce pieces being a pain to find, and finding the queen of fairies too, and in fact I kinda wished for a bit more guidance. The game is only linear if you don't bother to explore - Theres LOADS of islands to see full of mini games, secret caves and puzzles. Sure if you just follow the instruction as to where to go next it can be very linear - but Ocarina of time was exactly the same!


I could understand if you levelled these complaints at the DS games, or even Twilight Princess, but most of these things just don't apply to Wind Waker at all as far as I can tell.

I'll definetely give you the fetch quest though.

[irixith]

Wait what?

I said I hated it for what it brought to the series. No, the repeated dungeon concept didn't destroy Wind Waker on its own, but it certainly hurt the games that came after. To me, Wind Waker is the game that ruined Zelda, as there hasn't been one worth a damn ever since. Minish Cap? Phantom Hourglass? Spirit Tracks? Twilight Princess? All have suffered from Wind Waker.

..and yes, there was some exploration at first in Wind Waker, but once you've dropped your damn claw for the 1,000th time for some rupees, or gone to island number 233 for the same, it's tedious. Heaven forbid you don't drop your claw pixel perfect! There is no real risk/reward system in place. It's just a repeated tedium until you've "got 'em all" and all you want to do is stick your Cube in a crusher, and paint the Nintendo logo on the inside of your toilet bowl so you can express your dissatisfaction whenever nature calls.