A question to our openly female racketboy members?

[Czernobog]

I'm a guy, but I honestly usually prefer to play online games with girls. Guys (this seems to be more true online for some reason in my experience) tend to be so competitive that they get angry and the negative attitude can often make the experience suffer.

Most of the girls I play online with choose to remain anonymous because they want to actually play and enjoy the game instead of having anonymous players try to impress them with their "el33tn3ss," and then throw insecurity-induced insults when the girls don't act all "girly" towards them.

I play games to have fun, not to be the best. Quite frankly, I really don't care whether I win or lose, and this attitude seems more prevalent in the girls I know than the guys. Obviously this doesn't hold true for everyone, but it's been common in my experience.

@lisalover: It was very brave of you to share with us and I'm sure you can always find support and open ears here in the forums.

That's a nice way of saying girls aren't good at video games. I certainly believe they have the ability to become the best at a game but like you mentioned, most of them choose to play for fun, rather than try to win.

Genders aside, I strongly agree that people who play to win do not get along with people who play for fun. The two groups aren't playing by the same set of rules, so one group views the other as "cheaters" and gets upset.

Snaking in Mario Kart is a great example of this.

When the hell did I say girls aren't good at video games? Playing for fun is not the same as not being good. I know girls who don't care if they win or lose, but win the vast majority of the time. Not caring if you win or lose in no way means that someone loses more than they win.

[J T]

Sounds like the stereotype is true. Women have shitty taste in games.

Oh it's not just the women! Men have shitty taste as well!

According to that Nielson study the games on PC most frequently played by men are Solitaire, FreeCell, Hearts, Pinball, and Minesweeper (the women are similar). The only games that make the top ten lists that get any respect from what we typically think of as "gamers" are World of Warcraft and Half Life 2. You can read the report here..

[Inazuma]

I'm a guy, but I honestly usually prefer to play online games with girls. Guys (this seems to be more true online for some reason in my experience) tend to be so competitive that they get angry and the negative attitude can often make the experience suffer.

Most of the girls I play online with choose to remain anonymous because they want to actually play and enjoy the game instead of having anonymous players try to impress them with their "el33tn3ss," and then throw insecurity-induced insults when the girls don't act all "girly" towards them.

I play games to have fun, not to be the best. Quite frankly, I really don't care whether I win or lose, and this attitude seems more prevalent in the girls I know than the guys. Obviously this doesn't hold true for everyone, but it's been common in my experience.

@lisalover: It was very brave of you to share with us and I'm sure you can always find support and open ears here in the forums.

That's a nice way of saying girls aren't good at video games. I certainly believe they have the ability to become the best at a game but like you mentioned, most of them choose to play for fun, rather than try to win.

Genders aside, I strongly agree that people who play to win do not get along with people who play for fun. The two groups aren't playing by the same set of rules, so one group views the other as "cheaters" and gets upset.

Snaking in Mario Kart is a great example of this.

When the hell did I say girls aren't good at video games? Playing for fun is not the same as not being good. I know girls who don't care if they win or lose, but win the vast majority of the time. Not caring if you win or lose in no way means that someone loses more than they win.

Winning a majority of the time against bad players doesn't make you good. It just makes you better than other bad players.

You do not truly understand the mindset of players who are playing to win. Once you do that, you will be able to see the massive difference between the two groups. I made the switch myself years ago, and the difference is like night and day.

If someone who normally plays for fun is able to fully understand the concept of playing to win, and successfully switch to that mindset, they will be so much better at video games than their old self, it will blow their mind.

Also, you would find this hard to believe but the people playing to win are actually having more fun than the people playing for fun.

Anyway, like I said before, the two groups do not get along. There are a few reasons for this. One is because they aren't playing the same game. One group is playing the actual game (Mario Kart DS), and the other is playing a personal variant of it (No Snaking DS). The other reason is because the people playing to win will generally completely destroy the people playing for fun, which isn't much fun for either group.

It is true that the vast majority of women choose to play for fun. I'm not saying it's bad, exactly. That's just how it is. Do what is best for you. The only problem I have with people who play for fun is how most of them refuse to try to understand the players who play to win. They can be extremely close minded. It's not that surprising though. If they actually understood it, they would probably make the switch themselves. I mean, who doesn't want to have more fun? At the end of the day, video games are about having fun.

[J T]

Also, you would find this hard to believe but the people playing to win are actually having more fun than the people playing for fun.

As someone who has done both, I don't know if I agree with that. I think the competitive people have more fun with multiplayer, but not with general gaming. In competitive gaming, you hone your skill and you can hang with the others who do the same and there's a great comraderie and appreciation for other skillful players there, plus the thrill of training and outmatching someone that used to be better than you.

I found myself reaching a point though where I just was getting frustrated all the time when playing fighting games competitively, whether I won or lost. You reach a point where you have to play a very specific way because you know what moves are allowed and which ones will be punished. The creativity got sucked out of the fighting once I knew how to play to win and I just got annoyed when I lost, or felt little sense of accomplishment when I won. It was like I had solved a puzzle and I won when I knew the puzzle better than my opponent, and I lost when I slipped up some movements. I found I was sinking many hours in, but not enjoying it. I instead felt compelled to play just out of habit and some vain attempt to ease my frustration by winning a few more battles (neglecting the fact that the game I was playing to ease my frustration was the same game that caused it).

I now prefer to mostly play lots of games from lots of genres and I play just for the experience of it. I have plenty of fun that way. I will admit though, that I don't enjoy competitive multiplayer games unless I take on the competitor spirit. But games like point & click adventures or role playing games don't require that, and it maybe even gets in the way a bit because you don't take in the scenery and the story when you constantly demand a challenge.

[Gamerforlife]

Also, you would find this hard to believe but the people playing to win are actually having more fun than the people playing for fun.

As someone who has done both, I don't know if I agree with that. I think the competitive people have more fun with multiplayer, but not with general gaming. In competitive gaming, you hone your skill and you can hang with the others who do the same and there's a great comraderie and appreciation for other skillful players there, plus the thrill of training and outmatching someone that used to be better than you.

I found myself reaching a point though where I just was getting frustrated all the time when playing fighting games competitively, whether I won or lost. You reach a point where you have to play a very specific way because you know what moves are allowed and which ones will be punished. The creativity got sucked out of the fighting once I knew how to play to win and I just got annoyed when I lost, or felt little sense of accomplishment when I won. It was like I had solved a puzzle and I won when I knew the puzzle better than my opponent, and I lost when I slipped up some movements. I found I was sinking many hours in, but not enjoying it. I instead felt compelled to play just out of habit and some vain attempt to ease my frustration by winning a few more battles (neglecting the fact that the game I was playing to ease my frustration was the same game that caused it).

I now prefer to mostly play lots of games from lots of genres and I play just for the experience of it. I have plenty of fun that way. I will admit though, that I don't enjoy competitive multiplayer games unless I take on the competitor spirit. But games like point & click adventures or role playing games don't require that, and it maybe even gets in the way a bit because you don't take in the scenery and the story when you constantly demand a challenge.

I think I lost most of my interest in competitive gaming when I realized...there is always someone better than you. So what's the point? It's not like being the best player lasts forever and it's not like you get a prize or anything when you are. Don't get me wrong, if you talk me into playing something competitively, I WILL play to win and I have discovered that when players piss me off I can enter a zone where my skills go up dramatically beyond what I thought myself capable of. I used to think of it as me going super saiyan

However, once I'm done playing with a certain group of people for a while, I eventually get bored. As JT kind of pointed out, inevitably competitive gaming settles into a routine. It's like when you look at a fighting game and always see the same characters getting used because the others are low tier or see people always using the same guns in a shooter

I much prefer single player challenges, because I am only competing against myself. If I can S rank every stage in Devil May Cry 3 on Dante Must Die Mode(not that I have mind you), no one can take that away from me. If I become the highest ranked player of some online shooter or fighting game, it's only a matter of time before someone DOES take that away from me or I just get bored going through the same motions to win and stay on top as JT alluded to.

This is another thing I love about single player games. They tend to focus on providing a memorable experience, like Shadow of the Colossus for example. For competitive multi-player games, the thrill of competition IS the experience. And once you get bored with that.........

[Hatta]

Oh it's not just the women! Men have shitty taste as well!

According to that Nielson study the games on PC most frequently played by men are Solitaire, FreeCell, Hearts, Pinball, and Minesweeper (the women are similar). The only games that make the top ten lists that get any respect from what we typically think of as "gamers" are World of Warcraft and Half Life 2. You can read the report here..

Good point! Can't expect mainstream video games to be any better than mainstream music, movies, literature, food, or pretty much any endeavor. People just have shitty taste all around.

[Czernobog]

Winning a majority of the time against bad players doesn't make you good. It just makes you better than other bad players.

You do not truly understand the mindset of players who are playing to win. Once you do that, you will be able to see the massive difference between the two groups. I made the switch myself years ago, and the difference is like night and day.

If someone who normally plays for fun is able to fully understand the concept of playing to win, and successfully switch to that mindset, they will be so much better at video games than their old self, it will blow their mind.

Also, you would find this hard to believe but the people playing to win are actually having more fun than the people playing for fun.

Anyway, like I said before, the two groups do not get along. There are a few reasons for this. One is because they aren't playing the same game. One group is playing the actual game (Mario Kart DS), and the other is playing a personal variant of it (No Snaking DS). The other reason is because the people playing to win will generally completely destroy the people playing for fun, which isn't much fun for either group.

It is true that the vast majority of women choose to play for fun. I'm not saying it's bad, exactly. That's just how it is. Do what is best for you. The only problem I have with people who play for fun is how most of them refuse to try to understand the players who play to win. They can be extremely close minded. It's not that surprising though. If they actually understood it, they would probably make the switch themselves. I mean, who doesn't want to have more fun? At the end of the day, video games are about having fun.

I don't disagree with your points about the two groups. Actually, I find your points really informative/interesting as it's from a different perspective than I'm used to. I don't mind people who play to win, I just find it annoying when players are overly negative, regardless of whether they play to win or play for fun. I jumped the gun and was more rash and defensive than I should of been in my previous post without thinking it out. I just didn't want anyone to misinterpret my post as me believing girls are inferior at playing video games than guys, as that wasn't my intention.

[PixelPixii]

Oh it's not just the women! Men have shitty taste as well!

According to that Nielson study the games on PC most frequently played by men are Solitaire, FreeCell, Hearts, Pinball, and Minesweeper (the women are similar). The only games that make the top ten lists that get any respect from what we typically think of as "gamers" are World of Warcraft and Half Life 2. You can read the report here..

Good point! Can't expect mainstream video games to be any better than mainstream music, movies, literature, food, or pretty much any endeavor. People just have shitty taste all around.

I think it a little ironic that on a RETRO gaming forum we talk about people having "shitty" tastes in games. LOL

A lot of my friends HATE many of the old games that we talk about everyday on these forums. They just do not understand our appreciation of the oldies.

One man's trash another man's treasure, I guess.

[irixith]

It is true that the vast majority of women choose to play for fun. I'm not saying it's bad, exactly. That's just how it is. Do what is best for you. The only problem I have with people who play for fun is how most of them refuse to try to understand the players who play to win. They can be extremely close minded. It's not that surprising though. If they actually understood it, they would probably make the switch themselves. I mean, who doesn't want to have more fun? At the end of the day, video games are about having fun.

Like most other gamers I'm sure, some games I play to unwind, some for kicks, and some because I want to kick some major ass. I don't identify with any one particular group any fixed percentage of the time. It all depends on mood, type of game, and even the other people that I'm going to play with.

When I'm gaming, I'm having fun, no matter what particular reason I'm playing for. Interesting take on it though.

[Inazuma]

It is true that the vast majority of women choose to play for fun. I'm not saying it's bad, exactly. That's just how it is. Do what is best for you. The only problem I have with people who play for fun is how most of them refuse to try to understand the players who play to win. They can be extremely close minded. It's not that surprising though. If they actually understood it, they would probably make the switch themselves. I mean, who doesn't want to have more fun? At the end of the day, video games are about having fun.

Like most other gamers I'm sure, some games I play to unwind, some for kicks, and some because I want to kick some major ass. I don't identify with any one particular group any fixed percentage of the time. It all depends on mood, type of game, and even the other people that I'm going to play with.

When I'm gaming, I'm having fun, no matter what particular reason I'm playing for. Interesting take on it though.

I'm mostly referring to the times when I'm playing an online competitive game, and come across someone losing badly and complaining about it. I will give them advice on how to solve their problems and have more fun with the game, but they flat out refuse to consider it.

This kind of person appears to be extremely upset at losing. Not only are they losing horribly every time, but in their mind it's because the opponent is breaking the rules. It's very frustrating for them. They try to tell the opponent about the rules they are breaking, but the opponent doesn't listen. This is because the opponent knows those rules don't actually exist.

When playing competitive games, I would estimate about 95% of players are like this. They get completely destroyed by someone like me, and then they bitch and complain constantly about how I'm hacking and cheating and playing dishonorably. It's quite pathetic and I feel bad for them. I try to help them understand how they are only holding back their own potential by having personal rules that don't really exist, but they never listen to me. -_-

For single player games, anything goes. Whatever makes the game most enjoyable for you, is the best way to play. Even going so far as to hack and use cheat codes. There is nothing wrong with anything like that, as long as it doesn't affect others.