Facial Expressions

[J T]

Check out this technology being used for L.A. Noire



This is excellent stuff. The ability to have accurate facial expressions, whether realistic or cartoon, could do great things for gaming.

[Erik_Twice]

This is excellent stuff. The ability to have accurate facial expressions, whether realistic or cartoon, could do great things for gaming.

If you are going to use motion capture for cartoons you lose everything that makes a cartoon good. Cartoon designs don't work with realistic movements, because there's nothing to move.

And worse, you are stuck with expressions real people can do. Why make cartoons then? Because I don't think you can capture this:



Motion capture is the reason why the animation in The Polar Express is so jarring and lifeless.

[Niode]

I love the look of LA Noire and I'm really looking forward to playing it. I hope that our current generation of hardware can pull it off. I wish they had used this for Heavy Rain.

[Limewater]

If you are going to use motion capture for cartoons you lose everything that makes a cartoon good. Cartoon designs don't work with realistic movements, because there's nothing to move.

And worse, you are stuck with expressions real people can do. Why make cartoons then? Because I don't think you can capture this:



Motion capture is the reason why the animation in The Polar Express is so jarring and lifeless.

I'm not sure I quite buy this argument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotoscoping

[Erik_Twice]

I'm not sure I quite buy this argument.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotoscoping

I know what rotoscoping is, it has always been criticized for the same reasons. It has its uses but does not produce good facial expressions.

When Snow White was released everyone thought that the Prince and Snow White looked lifeless, that was caused by rotoscopping.

[Czernobog]

I'm not sure I quite buy this argument.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotoscoping

I know what rotoscoping is, it has always been criticized for the same reasons. It has its uses but does not produce good facial expressions.

When Snow White was released everyone thought that the Prince and Snow White looked lifeless, that was caused by rotoscopping.

I've done rotoscoping. It's a horribly, horribly, horribly painstakingly dull task, but can create realistic expressions. You're essentially tracing real expressions so if you do a good job with both the contours and the shading and spend a lot of time making them realistic they can look very realistic. Sure you can move away from this while rotoscoping and be unrealistic after tracing, but I don't really see the point in that as why were you rotoscoping in the first place then. I've met several good illustrators and animators who can draw and animate realistic facial expressions, including micro expressions just fine.

I've never really seen much of a point to rotoscoping other than it being an aesthetic choice as a desired visual style since you're right that a huge benefit of animation is the ability do essentially anything you desire and exaggerate facial expressions and go beyond the restrictions of real life. I could draw my desk turn into a giant cockroach, puke a sombrero, and tap dance while it's limbs contorted into human arms with an expression of glee which goes beyond anything the human face can produce.

People seem to think that motion captured expressions will allow us to feel a better emotional connection to animated characters. I don't think we will simply because it is actually quite unsettling to see something which we know is not human to perfectly emulate our expressions. Beside, photo-realism is the most boring type of art I see, since it's just emulating real life which I see all the time, so why strive to reach that and limit yourself to it when you can do something more creative.

[Limewater]

why strive to reach that and limit yourself to it when you can do something more creative.

To save money, imo.

[Czernobog]

why strive to reach that and limit yourself to it when you can do something more creative.

To save money, imo.

Rotoscoping and motion capture don't generally save much money and can often cost quite a sum. It being cheap seems to be a common misconception. The rotoscoping is an extremely lengthy postproduction task which has to be done in addition to actually filming the scenes making it a very time-consuming and expensive process. Plus, animators are a hell of a lot cheaper than the actors they hire to motion capture.

[Limewater]

Rotoscoping and motion capture don't generally save much money and can often cost quite a sum. It being cheap seems to be a common misconception. The rotoscoping is an extremely lengthy postproduction task which has to be done in addition to actually filming the scenes making it a very time-consuming and expensive process. Plus, animators are a hell of a lot cheaper than the actors they hire to motion capture.

You know more about this stuff than I do. I just read that's how Ralph Bakshi got into it.

[Czernobog]

Rotoscoping and motion capture don't generally save much money and can often cost quite a sum. It being cheap seems to be a common misconception. The rotoscoping is an extremely lengthy postproduction task which has to be done in addition to actually filming the scenes making it a very time-consuming and expensive process. Plus, animators are a hell of a lot cheaper than the actors they hire to motion capture.

You know more about this stuff than I do. I just read that's how Ralph Bakshi got into it.

Studios like to make interns, new-hires, etc. do the real grueling tasks that no one else wants to do and when it comes to animation, rotoscoping tops the grueling task list so a lot of animators and visual effects artists make their way into the industry by becoming really good rotoscopers. It's considered a way to break-in so often these guys aren't paid much. It's the length of the process which makes the cost actually add up.

Ralph Bakshi actually made me consider being an animator by showing just how adult-oriented animation had the potential to be when he created Felix the Cat and Heavy Traffic. (I also love Wizards)