The Arizona Shooting and American Political Discourse

[MrPopo]

On the flip side of that, if you think government work is incompetent now, just imagine if it was conscripted.

It's not conscription; you volunteer.

[Limewater]

Basically, I agree with this, and I hope it doesn't look like I was picking on the sane, moderate conservatives out there.

Is moderation a necessary condition for sanity? Or are moderates the only ones you believe are tolerable?

[jfrost]

Well, the main theory behind our system of government is that we elect representatives to speak for our voice in congress. The only way they know what we want is for us to tell them, whether it come from surveys or direct letters to our representative.

It's true that they can't know what you want if you don't tell them, but it just seems so farfetched to think that they will act upon something just because you told them to. Not only that, but Public Choice economics pretty much assures that it is impossible for a single person to get their way with the government (assuming that they are pushing for a "good" government, which is a public, as opposed to a private, good).

[jfrost]

On the flip side of that, if you think government work is incompetent now, just imagine if it was conscripted.

You would not conscript people to make decisions or direct policy.

Which is even worse. At least people would have a stake in the government if they participated directly. If they don't, they'll just serve to carry out whatever the elite in D.C. fancies at the time.

[ZeroAX]

Ok, I have to ask. Why the fuck are American's against gun regulation? Why is it so hard to first do a background check on someone before you sell them a gun?

You wouldn't hire someone as a teacher before checking that he isn't a pedophile right? So why not check if a guy is crazy before selling him an instrument of easily removing lives?

This guy on BBC makes quite the point. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mattfrei/ (I'm only talking about the thing I quoted)

On some issues, like alcohol consumption and drugs, America is - on the whole - strictly suspicious of the individual's ability to be behave sensibly. But when it comes to lethal weapons, this country is astonishingly permissive and trusting. We are told over and over again that it's the person that kills, not the gun. In the case of Jared Lee Loughner and his semi-automatic Glock, that is clearly nonsense.

(the nonsense part is probably cause the gun was a very lethal offensive minded model)


When I was living in the states, by father couldn't buy a beer on Sunday cause some local religion was against drinking alcohol during Sunday. So he wasn't allowed to consume it, cause other people believed against it, yet guns which remove lives are so easy to buy? A simple background check. How hard can it be?

[dsheinem]

A simple background check. How hard can it be?

It's not, which is why they are mandatory before buying a gun and have been for a long time.

Read up before jumping to conclusions: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics

[ZeroAX]

That link only talks about criminal records. How about sanity check? I'm not allowed to swim in the local public pool club if I don't get a doctor's notice that I'm healthy enough to swim, so I don't get a heart attack or anything. Can't a similar thing happen with a mental record?

[Limewater]

That link only talks about criminal records. How about sanity check? I'm not allowed to swim in the local public pool club if I don't get a doctor's notice that I'm healthy enough to swim, so I don't get a heart attack or anything.

I think a lot of Americans would find that restriction pretty silly.

Can't a similar thing happen with a mental record?

Most Americans don't have any mental health records. I don't know how it is in Greece, but here, if you don't have reason to receive some sort of mental health screening, you usually don't bother to have it done.

They also have strong danger of being highly subjective. My wife had an M.D. casually accuse her of having an eating disorder on her medical charts, and it ended up causing a heck of a lot of trouble for her. It was crap, and should never have happened.

[AppleQueso]

Criminals who intend to use these guns to commit crimes aren't likely to be trying to buy them legally.

[ZeroAX]

Criminals who intend to use these guns to commit crimes aren't likely to be trying to buy them legally.

Good point. Then again lunatics doing these kind of crimes aren't likely to think straight either.

And Limewater I remember a lot of warnings outside every amusement ride, even for the most "tame" ones, so I find it strange that a facility offering any activity that might involve even the smallest amount of danger, wouldn't try to have its ass covered someway, to avoid lawsuits.

Well regarding the mental record thing, I was thinking more of needing a permission from a doctor saying you are mentally stable enough to own a gun and not the state actually having mental records on everyone. And if one doctor is crap you can always go to another doctor to get a second opinion. Now if it gets to 3 doctor's saying you are crazy, I think it's a good idea to look in the mirror .

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with a doctor.