The Arizona Shooting and American Political Discourse

[dedalusdedalus]

It's a reflection on the state of US politics that the far-right and the far-left can't just agree to call this guy far-crazy.

[Flake]

Honestly, I think we're long overdue for some political violence. This particular incident however seems to be the work of a crazy person than a revolutionary.

We already have political violence. It's called terrorism. And it's working out oh-so-well for everyone.

[fvgazi]

I don't think the shooter was politically motivated. I think its more that he used the idea of politics as a justification to hurt people. People like that (whether hate filled, deranged or mentally unstable) will use their own illogical reasoning to justify the death of others.

We keep seeing stories like this and it really saddens me. Part of me wishes there was some way that we could help people like that before they got to that point on instability instead of having to deal with the consequences of ignoring it later.

There is treatment, but it's hard to help everybody. Also, treatment doesn't guarantee that a person won't do something like this.

Let's just say for example that the shooter was shizophrenic or at least had a schizoid personality type. If this guy is experiencing positive symptoms (hallucinations, delusions...) and one of his triggers is politics, then even with medication he would be hard to treat. Most people with schizophrenia who undergo treatment (with meds) and are stable are able to realize when they are slipping. Once they slip, however, it's hard to do anything without hospitalization. If this guy had politically motivated delusions, it was only a matter of time.

Now I know it wasn't released that he was schizophrenic or even had anything for that matter. He could've been "normal" and suffered some sort of break or have even been coerced.

I think the general concensus among us has been that the "them vs us" attitude is not helping this country. We are all in it together and HAVE to work with people we don't like to maintain our mutual freedoms. The fighting will never end, but I think if people were able to take a step back and just be thankful for what we have right now, things might be easier.

[Hatta]

We already have political violence. It's called terrorism. And it's working out oh-so-well for everyone.

It's actually working out pretty well for the terrorists. They have held their own against the world's largest military for longer than anyone else in the world. Guerilla warfare is an effective tactic.

People don't feel they have a voice anymore in the US. Look at what happened with our greatest hope for change in a generation. It's getting to the point in the US where people really feel that we no longer have a system of justice, but a system of exploitation. When that happens you can expect people to look for ways to spur change outside the system. It will start with the lunatic fringe, but move towards the center, unless we see real change achieved through political means. I'm afraid that can't happen anymore, since I've never seen it happen in my lifetime.

Don't get me wrong, war is an awful thing. But we've been in a state of war for a long time. People are reacting like this woman didn't have blood on her hands. Yes, it's tragic that an innocent 7 year old girl died in this attack, but it's no more tragic than the thousands of innocent children the US has killed in the Middle East.

Let me put it this way. You know that awful sinking horrible feeling you have right now, that "Good god what has happened to my country?!" feeling? That is how I feel all day, every day, about the normal operations of our government.

[Incognito D]

34 posts and no one's suggested that guns being legal to buy and own is a bad idea? (and also is to blame... again)

[AppleQueso]

34 posts and no one's suggested that guns being legal to buy and own is a bad idea? (and also is to blame... again)

oh god not this shit

[fvgazi]

34 posts and no one's suggested that guns being legal to buy and own is a bad idea? (and also is to blame... again)

oh god not this shit

For the last time.. Guns don't kill people.. AppleQueso Kills people.


The issue here is not GUNS, it's the US has 2 extremist groups for it's 2 party system and they both hate each other so nothing ever gets solved.

[AppleQueso]

Thing is, I'm fairly anti-gun myself, but the point is that discussion isn't going to go anywhere at all.

[Flake]

Oh man, Hatta. Where to start...

It's actually working out pretty well for the terrorists. They have held their own against the world's largest military for longer than anyone else in the world. Guerilla warfare is an effective tactic.

International security and conflict are kind of my thing. You are failing to ask an important question: What have "the terrorists" (I am assuming you are talking about Al Qaeda in Iraq, there are a LOT of terrorist groups in the world, you know) actually gained? There is a difference between terrorist attacks and guerilla tactics, btw. Al Qaeda has assumed tactics that have completely removed the chance for anyone to have sympathy for their cause: Now people just focus on their violent actions. Al Qaeda has only garnered two things for itself: the satisfaction of giving the United States military the wake up call it needed to face conflict in this century and a chance for angry Muslim men to die.

People don't feel they have a voice anymore in the US. Look at what happened with our greatest hope for change in a generation.

When was the last time you wrote to your congressperson? Or your senator? Or sat down at a town hall meeting? When was the last time you participated in your government? There are more ways to have your voice heard than to just cast a ballot every four years and then hope for the best.

It will start with the lunatic fringe, but move towards the center, unless we see real change achieved through political means. I'm afraid that can't happen anymore, since I've never seen it happen in my lifetime.

That's a bit of a logical fallacy, isn't it? The United States have been around for a much longer time than you. You think this is the first time our great country has faced these issues? You think people are not listened to right now, take a look at the late 1800's, where 99% of the wealth was controlled by 1% of the populations. Women couldn't vote. We managed to survive that and a recession far more severe than the one we face today without a 'lunatic fringe'.

Don't get me wrong, war is an awful thing. But we've been in a state of war for a long time. People are reacting like this woman didn't have blood on her hands. Yes, it's tragic that an innocent 7 year old girl died in this attack, but it's no more tragic than the thousands of innocent children the US has killed in the Middle East.

First of all, she was 9 years old. Second of all, no this woman did not have any blood on her hands. No more so than you do. She was not a member of the 107th congress. She never voted for the war to receive funding. It wouldn't have mattered if she had been there - the Republicans owned the government during the 107th congress. She's a moderate democrat. Do you check your statements in advance?

And while it is tragic that children have been victims of collateral damage in Iraq, it is important to remember that no children were killed during the actual war with Iraq in 2003. It has been a result of insurgent movements who have no qualms about using children and families as shields that situations have arisen where children have died. That's not on us. And having read the current field manual for counter insurgency (Army COIN FM 3.24) I can assure you that if children are dying, it isn't the fault of army or marine forces.

Let me put it this way. You know that awful sinking horrible feeling you have right now, that "Good god what has happened to my country?!" feeling? That is how I feel all day, every day, about the normal operations of our government.

I would say that feeling is probably more a result of being uninformed or under involved. You sit and watch TV and see that nothing is going the way you want it to. Well, why should it? You think liberals did not feel that exact same way from 2001-2008? Do you think that the current crop of Republicans did not feel that way during the LBJ years? Hell, the entire nation felt that way during the Carter administration.

Learn your history: This isn't the worst we have dealt with. Get involved: You do have avenues to interact with your government. There is no excuse for terrorism, domestic or otherwise.

[ZeroAX]

34 posts and no one's suggested that guns being legal to buy and own is a bad idea? (and also is to blame... again)

Perhaps we Europeans should stay out of this. I have my thoughts on the subject as well, but it really doesn't concern me.