Which are the 'mainline' Mario titles?

[Breetai]

I really do not see any justification for excluding Mario Land 1 and 2.

How about if I reverse it:

Do you see the claim that they are a sub-series as being incorrect?

No more so than if someone were to claim that the 3D games were a sub-series. Certainly Mario Land has a hell of a lot more in common with the Mario Bros / World entries than Mario 64 or Sunshine.

I kind of did that (separated the main 2D series from the 3D series), but refrained in the end. They all share the same basic story arch; saving the Mushroom Kingdom and/or Princess Peach from King Koopa.

Again, Super Mario Land is OUTSIDE of that story arch. Hence, it is a sub-series. It is still a MARIO game, but it is not part of the MAIN series. Likewise with Yoshi's Island. Nintendo seems to agree with me.

[Michi]

Poor Super Mario Land. No love from Nintendo....only neglect.

[noiseredux]

Poor Super Mario Land. No love from Nintendo....only neglect.

I don't care what anyone says -- when SML came out in 1989, it was NOT some "side-game" to me.

[flamepanther]

People are acting like it's somehow derogatory to be considered a side game to a larger series, but that's really not the case. I saw the same thing concerning talk of whether Kirby's Epic Yarn was a "main series" game. Does anyone here feel like Metroid Prime was an inferior game? Was The Secret of Mana just some dumb frivolous Final Fantasy spin-off? Yoshi's Island? There is absolutely no shame in something being a side game or a spin-off.

[noiseredux]

People are acting like it's somehow derogatory to be considered a side game to a larger series, but that's really not the case. I saw the same thing concerning talk of whether Kirby's Epic Yarn was a "main series" game. Does anyone here feel like Metroid Prime was an inferior game? Was The Secret of Mana just some dumb frivolous Final Fantasy spin-off? Yoshi's Island? There is absolutely no shame in something being a side game or a spin-off.

(raises hand.)

[alienjesus]

People are acting like it's somehow derogatory to be considered a side game to a larger series, but that's really not the case. I saw the same thing concerning talk of whether Kirby's Epic Yarn was a "main series" game. Does anyone here feel like Metroid Prime was an inferior game? Was The Secret of Mana just some dumb frivolous Final Fantasy spin-off? Yoshi's Island? There is absolutely no shame in something being a side game or a spin-off.

I wouldnt consider any of those games except maybe yoshi's island a side game, and that has since become its own game series.

However, I get your point.

[Flake]

I kind of did that (separated the main 2D series from the 3D series), but refrained in the end. They all share the same basic story arch; saving the Mushroom Kingdom and/or Princess Peach from King Koopa.

That is really arbitrary. I mean, if that is the only distinction then why not include Mario RPG? You save the mushroom kingdom and Princess Peach from King Koopa in that one. Same goes for Paper Mario. Super Mario Bros 3 does not even happen in the Mushroom Kingdom. Neither does Super Mario World. Mario Galaxy 2 does not even have a plot of its own - it is essentially a streamlined retelling of the first Galaxy game.

My point being, using storyline conventions to distinguish which games make the cut is kind of unfair when you are talking about a series like Mario that scarcely has an ongoing plot of any kind. The only constants are game-play conventions: And in that regard, there is no reason at all to discount the first two Mario Lands unless you just absolutely do not want them to acknowledge those games - and that is fine. Sometimes you just do not like a particular game. No shame in that.

[noiseredux]

SML FTW

[Breetai]

People are acting like it's somehow derogatory to be considered a side game to a larger series, but that's really not the case. I saw the same thing concerning talk of whether Kirby's Epic Yarn was a "main series" game. Does anyone here feel like Metroid Prime was an inferior game? Was The Secret of Mana just some dumb frivolous Final Fantasy spin-off? Yoshi's Island? There is absolutely no shame in something being a side game or a spin-off.

I find it silly how this post even needed to be written. Being a side-game, an off-shoot or a spin-off from a series is not a bad thing in the least.

Mario was a spin-off from Donkey Kong.
Chrono Trigger was (sort of) a spin-off from the Final Fantasy series.
Kingdom Hearts was a spin-off from the Final Fantasy series.
Freaking' Mario Kart was a spin-off from the SMB series!
more.... Dr. Mario, Dracula X: Rondo of Blood, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (both from the "Dracula X" series), Mega Man Legends, Mega Man X, Mario Party, Smash Bros., Street Fighter Zero/Alpha series, Demon's Crest, etc.

There are TONS of great spin-off series. The Super Mario Land and Yoshi's Island series are among the BEST.

My point being, using storyline conventions to distinguish which games make the cut is kind of unfair when you are talking about a series like Mario that scarcely has an ongoing plot of any kind. The only constants are game-play conventions: And in that regard, there is no reason at all to discount the first two Mario Lands unless you just absolutely do not want them to acknowledge those games - and that is fine. Sometimes you just do not like a particular game. No shame in that.

Who said anything about not liking a game? Super Mario Land 2 and Yoshi's Island are some of my favourite platformers!

Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario (series) are not platformers. The 2D and 3D games in my list are. So, I think my distinguishing feature still holds up.

My list of "mainline" or "core" Super Mario platform titles are still:

Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Bros. 2 (Lost Levels)
Super Mario Bros. 3
Super Mario World
Super Mario 64
Super Mario Sunshine
Super Mario Galaxy
Super Mario Galaxy 2
New Super Mario Bros.
New Super Mario Bros. Wii

I am actually agreeing with the Mario Wiki site (http://www.mariowiki.com/Mario_(series)), except on Super Mario USA (SMB2). It gives the SML series it's own, seperate, section outside of the main series.

I can see kind of a clear progression in "story" from SMB1, Lost Levels, SMB3, SMW, 64, Sunshine (I think), NSMB, NSMBWii, SMG and SMG2. While not as coherent as a novel, there is something there. SML, to me, really does feel like a side story/gaiden. Same for Yoshi's Island and SMBUSA/SMB2.

BTW, isn't the first world from SMB3 the Mushroom Kingdom,while the entire game takes place throughout the Mushroom world? I could be mistaken.

[Flake]

I can see kind of a clear progression in "story" from SMB1, Lost Levels, SMB3, SMW, 64, Sunshine (I think), NSMB, NSMBWii, SMG and SMG2. While not as coherent as a novel, there is something there.

BTW, isn't the first world from SMB3 the Mushroom Kingdom,while the entire game takes place throughout the Mushroom world? I could be mistaken.

What progression do you see? I mean, it's not like the series is known for its great character development, continuity, and story archs. Except for that time when Luigi was in prison for selling smack to kids. Never get high on your own supply. Police found him flipping out in this abandoned mansion on a hill.

Now if I were to tell someone that Princess Daisy in SML was actually a grayscale Princess Peach, how would they ever know the difference?

Each area of Mario 3 was a different Kingdom ruled by a different Monarch. Until the last World, Peach was safely at home in the Mushroom Kingdom, writing letters to Mario.