Single Avast Pro license used by 744,651 pirates

[Inazuma]

Hmm, you guys are more close minded than I thought. The "Copying is Not Theft" youtube video must be too difficult to understand. What a shame.

I have another idea to help you guys understand what I'm trying to say.

I recently bought a portable Mega Drive with an SD slot for roms, called the Gopher. I did some searches for Mega Drive games and downloaded about 6 different torrent files, all of them claiming to have every single Mega Drive/Genesis rom in existance. Not only will it be great to have every Mega Drive game in a portable device, but it lets me try out games I didn't know about.

I normally buy used Mega Drive games from ebay, and I still plan on doing that. Having all these roms won't deter me one bit. I like physical media with boxes and manuals.

OK, so how many games did I just pirate? 6 thousand or so, I think. Do you honestly think that I would have bought 6 thousand Mega Drive games normally? Did I really steal tens of thousands of dollars from Sega? Would shoplifting 6 thousand games from store shelves be the exact same thing?

[ChuChu Flamingo]

>Paying for Anti-Virus

[Limewater]

Hmm, you guys are more close minded than I thought. The "Copying is Not Theft" youtube video must be too difficult to understand. What a shame.

My post was actually referring to the arguments presented on this thread by both sides. You've made the very same piracy is not theft argument on this forum several times before. It was fallacious then as it is now. Do you think people just forget and you can present the same old argument as new after a few months?

[Hatta]

Do you think people just forget and you can present the same old argument as new after a few months?

That's what the people who think copying == stealing seem to think. For as many times as this gets rehashed on this forum, some people just can't get it through their thick heads that you cannot steal something that is in infinite supply.

[Limewater]

That's what the people who think copying == stealing seem to think. For as many times as this gets rehashed on this forum, some people just can't get it through their thick heads that you cannot steal something that is in infinite supply.

*facepalm*

Both arguments are stupid. The shoplifting argument is just a ridiculous comparison. The piracy is not theft argument is based upon the same ridiculous premise and reaches an illogical conclusion.

[Hatta]

The copyright is not theft argument is correct because the shoplifting argument is absurd. Theft is an act with a specific definition, copying does not fall under that definition. Copying is not theft. Period.

Now that doesn't mean that copying isn't illegal. It is. It is a tort called "copyright infringement", and under certain circumstances it can amount to a crime under federal law.

If you want to discuss whether copying is right or wrong, that's something reasonable people can disagree about. Denying any of the above facts however is ignorant at best, and deliberately deceptive at worst.

[Limewater]

The copyright is not theft argument is correct because the shoplifting argument is absurd.

This is not enough to logically conclude that piracy is not theft.

Theft is an act with a specific definition, copying does not fall under that definition. Copying is not theft. Period.

Theft is a specific act with a very specific definition within the legal system. This is not common usage. There are a lot of words that mean something very different in a courtroom than they mean in common usage. The word "proof" means something very different to a lawyer than it does to a mathematician. That doesn't make one of those usages the only valid one. I'm not going to argue that Dsheinem is not a Communications professor because he's probably never done a Fourier Transform. It's fun and cute to play lawyer, but I'm not aware of any actual lawyers on this board.

The piracy isn't theft argument basically hinges upon equivocation. The legal definition of theft includes "intent to deprive." Identity theft does not meet the legal definition of theft. Stealing (sorry! Copying!) credit card numbers does not meet the legal definition of theft. Stealing (sorry! Copying) an individual's login credentials does not meet the legal definition of theft. Stealing someone's biometric data does not meet the legal definition of theft. Stealing medical records does not meet the legal definition of theft. Stealing academic records does not meet the legal definition of theft. Accidentally stealing something from the grocery store because it was on the bottom of the shopping cart and you forgot to give it to the checkout person does not meet the legal definition of theft.

In common usage, theft is pretty much synonymous with stealing. That's what makes the argument fallacious (see:equivocation). A commonly used word is provided in a forum with no context, and then an argument is presented based upon a definition different than the one in the reader/listener's head. Because most readers are not lawyers, they come away is a logically flawed conclusion.

Denying any of the above facts however is ignorant at best, and deliberately deceptive at worst.

Misleading people based upon equivocation strikes me as a lot more deceptive than the case I have argued.

[Inazuma]

The copyright is not theft argument is correct because the shoplifting argument is absurd. Theft is an act with a specific definition, copying does not fall under that definition. Copying is not theft. Period.

Now that doesn't mean that copying isn't illegal. It is. It is a tort called "copyright infringement", and under certain circumstances it can amount to a crime under federal law.

If you want to discuss whether copying is right or wrong, that's something reasonable people can disagree about. Denying any of the above facts however is ignorant at best, and deliberately deceptive at worst.

Thank you for this.

I never said that copying is never wrong. It can be right or wrong, depending on the circumstances. The simple fact is that copying and stealing are not the same thing.

As long as people keep getting the two terms confused, people like me will keep trying to correct them. If you don't want to hear it anymore, open your mind and actually understand the difference.

Joe - "1 + 1 = 3"
Bill - "No, it's 2 actually."
Joe - "Will you stop saying that?! You already said that before!"
Bill - *shakes head*

[Limewater]

The simple fact is that copying and stealing are not the same thing.

If you read back over it, this statement pretty much confirms the main point I was making in my previous post.

[elmagicochrisg]