Stealth Games, Yay or Nay

[alienjesus]

I didnt like Splinter Cell, and I loved Beyond Good & Evil, but I feel that was more in spite of the stealth sequences than because of them. Otherwise, I've never really played any other stealth games, although Theif and Tenchu look interesting at least. Metal Gear as a series has never really caught my attention though.

[Ack]

Where is Hitman? It had open-ended stealth levels which allowed the player to pick different methods of getting through each level. Some levels I played through over and over again and still found new methods to try, though I had my favorites. Tenchu I'd get through using the same trick over and over again, and Metal Gear Solid I tranked everyone, but the Hitman games...they make stealth into an art form.

[ZeroAX]

if every single enemy in said military base came after you at the sound of one alarm, it wouldn't be fun... if you survived then your mission would be boring afterword. screw up in first five minutes, waste thirty guys, run around kicking down doors and completing objectives unhindered... that's not fun.

Well I was thinking, that when guards found you once, the base would be on high alert, so you could still stealth around, but the guards would be running all over the place, so it would be more like an action platformer, where you have to run around fast and try to find ways to pass by undetected.

I just think the stealth genre still hasn't reached its full potential, until game designers start giving us the tools to play around with the AI. For example a door is being guarded, you set up a bomb 50 meters away, it goes off it causes a fire and everyone runs to see what is going on, and meanwhile you picklock your way through the previously guarded door.



I guess the closest I've ever come to such a game was the Commando series for the PC. Damn I loved those games, even though I had trouble beating a stage. Is the Commando series considered a stealth game? It's a strategy game, but it heavily involves stealth.

[optmusprimenumber]

Where is Hitman? It had open-ended stealth levels which allowed the player to pick different methods of getting through each level. Some levels I played through over and over again and still found new methods to try, though I had my favorites. Tenchu I'd get through using the same trick over and over again, and Metal Gear Solid I tranked everyone, but the Hitman games...they make stealth into an art form.

I forgot about Hitman... I only played Blood Money and I never did beat it, but you're right about it taking stealth into an art form. Well, right enough anyway. I always saw the Hitman layout as sort of a stealth puzzle situation. The controls and interactivity with environments definitely set that series apart from the "norm" of the stealth genre. Though, about Tenchu... one of the things I always enjoyed about that series was that you could always challenge yourself and play with ninja items, enemy layouts, the free roaming nature and set up personal challenges and basically just try to pull off the gnarliest shit you could imagine. Not to mention just getting through a level 100% undetected, that is definitely gratifying.

At ZeroAx: I'm with ya on that. The genre needs to spread it's wings. Splinter Cell: Conviction was a good thing; Stealth Action in the non-MGS sense. Very good game, though a bit short and it sort of rushes you through... if you get into it though, and also have a friend who can hold his own, the multiplayer is a rush. But still, stealth games seem to limit themselves with expected mechanics and they could definitely afford to offer scenarios like the one you suggested. At least as an option... call it "Master mode" or whatever. That way you can jump into a stealth game and play it the way you know, and then turn it on it's head and play around with it more. Higher stakes and whatnot.

BTW, if there's any fledgling or accomplished programmers here, I have what I seriously consider (and not just 'cause it's "my idea") to be the best idea for a new stealth game... more details for the right person.

[Gamerforlife]

I've actually thought about trying a few more stealth titles. What I like about stealth games is that they focus on what a lot of video games don't. I'm talking about finesse. In Tenchu 2, many stages required you to not be spotted at all and to kill every enemy in the stage if you wanted to get the Grand Master ranking which opened up new items for you to use.

In most video games, you blast your way through a stage or fight everything that moves. If enemies see you, no big deal. Just kill them. You take damage, no big deal. You have a health bar and tons of health pickups lying around. You die, no big deal. Here's a checkpoint and a free health refill. No real incentive to try and play your best. Stealth games encourage to not make mistakes. In fact, in some stealth games I've played if you die, it's back to the beginning of a stage. If you need to get through a room full of guards, you let ONE spot you and it's game over

Now, on the flip side, there is nothing more annoying than a poorly designed stealth game. I feel like this is a genre that needs to be polished to be enjoyable. And that's what I love about the good ones in the genre. They show some real craftsmenship

A good stealth game can be a nice break from a lot of the other action oriented games out there. They reward patience, observation and sometimes a little strategy

[flamepanther]

I appreciate the concept of stealth games, but I don't have the patience to actually play them.

[Erik_Twice]

While I enjoyed the small part of Thief III I played I have to say that I hated the couple of other stealth games I got my hands on.

The reason is that everything felt too forced, more like a puzzle than actual stealth. I don't remember it well but I think that Splinter Cell (The first one, I think) suffered from that. I think that stealth games should be far more open ended.

I think that the best stealth game I have ever played is no other than Team Fortress 2, with the Spy. You have a lot of tools to kill the opponents and sometimes simply firing at sight is the best option even if it makes everyone paranoid. Other times you simply cannot be seen or they will kill you in a second. This kind of open-ended problem with the right tools make for a very creative experience.

Similarly and even if it's quite different from the other games mentioned here I think that the Commandos games got stealth right. There were a lot of options and different ways of achiving each goal and I think that is what made Commandos a good game.

TL; DR: Solving each problem creatively is the basis of a good stealth game, they shouldn't be puzzle games.

[optmusprimenumber]

The reason is that everything felt too forced, more like a puzzle than actual stealth. I don't remember it well but I think that Splinter Cell (The first one, I think) suffered from that. I think that stealth games should be far more open ended.

the first 2 splinter cells were like that... but from chaos theory on, it became a playground of sorts... a very fun playground... watch out for the 360 version of Double Agent, it's ridiculously unforgiving and even tests my eternal patience for stealth games w/ it's "adaptive AI" that prevents you from retrying a certain approach after a restart/mid-mission reload by directing enemies to wander to where you were the first try, when during that first try they were scripted to look the other way and do something else entirely. It's a cool idea, but effing frustrating.

Solving each problem creatively is the basis of a good stealth game, they shouldn't be puzzle games.

cheers to that... but i have to say, for the most part the genre as a whole hasn't so much embraced any sort of "puzzle" factor... a couple exceptions would be the Hitman series and the newest Tenchu(on the wii) in a sense. But even so, the Hitman games offer each level as essentially one big "puzzle" w/ multiple solutions. But Tenchu (wii) is mostly linear w/ a slight puzzle feel, unfortunately not offering many options... it's a fun game if you love stealth and ninjas, but not as sand-boxy as the previous entries in the series.

[J T]

There is an upcoming stealth game for PC called Depth.

The game is set underwater and instead of trying to avoid alerting guards like in Metal Gear, you are trying to avoid being eaten by sharks. It could be good if they pull of the gameplay mechanics well.

Check out some of the video
http://www.depthgame.com/media.html

[Erik_Twice]

@optmusprimenumber

Yeah, what I mean is that they feel like a puzzle even if they don't have the common elements because they are too limited sometimes. Another game that has a very puzzle feel for me without any kind of similarity to those is no other than Fire Emblem.

The reason is that the game is so hard that instead of an innovate tactic you minimax so you can kill enemies without getting hit. It's more of "How can I kill those 3 guys with my 6 guys without being hit, in which order must I move them?" than tactics. Which is not to say I do not like Fire Emblem.